So, as Xee is almost done, and I'm mostly waiting for external contributions, I decided it was time to start working on the Legendary Next Update for Kareha and Wakaba.

Only problem is, it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what needs to be done. Most of it is mentioned SOMEWHERE on the board, though. So this is your chance to pipe up with your pet feature request, or if you're feeling really helpful, to dig out some old posts that mention things that need fixing.

Hop to it!

sup

> Maybe the thread title should be an l50 link?

That's what I've been saying in >>3!

> If anything, the role of capcodes should be minimized or altogether eradicated, in favor of ninja moderation.

It's up to the administration of the site how to use them. I am advocating that if they are used at all (and yes, there are useful instances for this and yes, these are and should be rare) then it would be helpful to be able to differentiate between site owner/admin/supermod/mod/maid/etc

>>101
If that is legit, then fusianasan needs to display IPs just like tripcodes: not bold/strong.

I meant Remote host adress instead of IP.

durr hurr

>>103

Noted.

test

fusianasan + sage test

I thought fusianasan was supposed to be a mod-only function to weed out bad posters. And what would be the difference between revealing the persons's IP and his ISP's domain?

>>99
I didn't mean to include Forcenick in there, sorry.
Adding to that, however, how about forced sage for specificed IPs? It'd make for a great slogan: Remember kids, tripcodes and aging are privileges, not rights!

Hmm, looks like my ISP fails at keeping my IP secret.

WAHa, WAHa, it's a bug!

Pressed back after creating an error message in karaha (trying to reply to this thread, forgetting to type something in here), refresh does nothing!

Thought of something else: can there be the ability to separately place a title on a board and what the head <title> element says?

Like "Music" for the header but "foolchan - music" for the title in the browser window.

>>108
fusianasan is a voluntary function to show identity without having to memorize a tripcode. Works on all boards. Reveals your IP, of course...

Another feature I'd like is keyboard shortcuts like Wikipedia. Although you'd have to avoid stuff like Alt-D.

>>112
We already have the ID function, so why do we need such an egregious compromise of anonymity (and security) like voluntarily exposing your own IP?

>>110
Happened to me, too, sometimes it goes black, sometimes it goes white. Screen reappears if you just scroll up a bit but it's still strange.

>>108
I don't think that restricting specific users' posting priviliges is useful in any way except restricting them from posting.

>>108,113
"fusianasan" is for when a user wants to prove that he is posting from a certain place (like a school, a company's network or a military base).

>>112
A keyboard shortcut for "reply" in Kareha or "submit" in Wakaba would be nice to have.

What does "fusianasan" mean?

>>116
Good question! I tried to find out myself but just found some interesting but rather unhelpful links:
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/fusianasan
http://info.2ch.net/guide/faq.html#G5
http://ansitu.xrea.jp/guidance/?FAQ1

>>116

Apparently it's not Japanese, because it's supposed to be pronounced as an English word. I have no clue, though.

I found this:

fusianasan【ふしあなさん】［名・自ｽﾙ］
２ちゃんねるに書き込みする際に名前欄に「fusianasan」の文字列を入力すると、その書き込みをした人のリモートホストのＩＰアドレスがさらされるようになっている。
本来は「（固定ハンドル)@fusianasan」などとして、まだキャップを取得していない固定ハンドルが自らＩＰをさらすことで騙りを防ぐためのシステムである。
が、裏２ちゃん関係のコピペが横行するに至って、一時期うっかりＩＰをさらしてしまう。
エロな人間が続出し、fusianasan廃止要望まで唱えられるに至った(当然却下されたが)。
ＩＰをさらすことだけによる危険は、そのＩＰから手元で使用中のコンピュータを一意に特定でき
（ex：グローバルＩＰによる常時接続）、かつプロキシ・サーバー、ファイヤーウォールなどの防御策を怠っている場合にしか及ばないので、
fusianasanに引っかかったからといって実はそこまで神経質になることもなかったりする。
……過去にＩＰから仕事中に政府機関から２ちゃんねるにつないで裏２ちゃんに入ろうとしていた愚か者が釣れてさらされたという事例はあるが。
なお、現在では一部の板でデフォルトの名無しさん（名前欄未記入時の名前）が「fusianasanさん」などfusianasanを含む名前となっている場合がある。
また、串の性能を試すために敢えて裏２ちゃんに引っかかっていると思われる強者もちらほら見受けられる。

類義語：mokorikomo
参照：裏２ちゃん、キャップ

And this:

だってよ。

231 ：ひろゆき ◆3SHRUNYAXA ＠どうやら管理人 ★：04/02/05 14:13 ID:???
ハンマー投げゲーム機能つけてみました。
名前の欄に『murofusianasan』と書き込めば
【６０ｍ】とか【７５ｍ】とか記録が出ます。
数値はランダムで０～１００くらいまでありますよ。。。
お暇なら遊んでください。

I almost forgot this:

For thread-closing, it would be nice if Kareha would post a last post, telling the thread is now over and closed (with some default message that can be customized for each board), akin to the 0ch 1001th post behaviour.

About the etyomology of "fusianasan":
http://4-ch.net/nihongo/kareha.pl/1102656968/224-

Some semantical nitpicking: "replies" should probably be changed to "posts", since >>1 is not really a reply, which makes >>100 the 99th reply to a thread, thus contradicting the "First 100 replies" thing. Same goes for "Next 100 replies" and "Last 50 replies".

>>123
signed

>>123

Noted. I've been struggling with that same problem for naming things internally in the code, and obviously it distracted me from noticing the same problem in the GUI.

One of the things I did when I modified and restructured the order of functions in post_stuff() was add specific error messages for each non-comment field. Would this be considered superfluous?

Getting back to inconsequential nitpicking: I find the "___ image replies omitted" phrase to be a bit redundant, and for one it confuses me as to whether or not those image replies are separate from text-only replies. How about simply calling it "images"?

All right, new version installed. This one has a bunch of layout changes, and some big changes in the CSS, so you'll need to make sure the CSS is loaded by shift-reloading. Also, fixing all the CSS files was a huge pain in the ass. Have a look around to see if there are any obvious mistakes, but be gentle, because this has given me a headache.

Also, I couldn't be arsed to fix Amber, since it was just a joke in the first place.

Damn, I was about to plug >>96 when I saw you uploaded the new version. Thanks for listening WAHa, you're awesome. :D

(Does this work like rules.html in mode_image? Is the board title inserted automatically in templates.pl or is it part of that separate html file?)

Already a few nitpicks though: (1) index.html#menu and index.html#1 links should be automatically inserted to the right of the board title (or below if you're looking at it without CSS), and (2) the "Create new thread" title isn't really necessary, since the widget button already explains its function (like with the reply box).

Unrelated: in 2ch thread lists, position numbers are followed by colons, not periods.

Oh, and I apologize for indirectly causing you too much trouble with this change.

>>129

That form just looks wrong with no title or clear separator, though. I might put in a title that is not the exact same as the button, though. Any suggestions?

The board title is inserted by template.pl, and rules.html is included after it.

test1

test2. looks good!

How about a function to replace an inappropriate image with a standard image? (aka HelloKitty.gif)

>>134
Suggested in >>36 and noted.

Hey, I just noticed this: where did the admin link go? Or are you working on a separate interface already? :D

Removed it when redesigning the page head, haven't figured out quite what to do about it yet. It needs to be changed, but to what, I'm not yet sure.

>>137
I'd advocate going for a separate interface a-la Wakaba, but it might be a bit too much to do for this release.

Also, maybe Easter Eggs like the Eternal September timestamp and others (if they exist) should be documented in config.pl.

Lastly, a question: who here finds enough use in the auto-expanding comment box to justify the annoyances when you click in or out of it?

You can't document easter eggs! That's crazy talk!

Also, I find it insanely more annoying to write text in five-line tunnel vision than whatever annoyance might be caused by a comment box that expands.

>>137
I also noticed that you removed the CSS selector in individual thread views. Personally, it seems both the Admin options and Style selector are a bit of a hindrance to the overall layout. Don't get me wrong -- I think the drop-in Style capability is fantastic-- but it just doesn't seem to play nice with the current 2ch page design.

The thing is, don't most or all major browsers these days allow users to change CSS styles from within the application itself? I know Firefox does, at least. Maybe the selector isn't really necessary.

> Also, I couldn't be arsed to fix Amber, since it was just a joke in the first place.

Booo!

> who here finds enough use in the auto-expanding comment box to justify the annoyances when you click in or out of it?

I love that feature. Please don't remove it!

> I think the drop-in Style capability is fantastic-- but it just doesn't seem to play nice with the current 2ch page design.

plz 2 be keeping that feature too

The Futaba template is missing the "No File" checkbox next to the File field in the Post New Thread area.

The "Entire thread" link in the top navigation bar of the thread page is still broken.

Thanks for the links at the top. Previously, I had to search for those threads over and over again if I wanted to find them.

>>140

So, does that mean you approve of removing the style selector on subpages? I just woke up and I'm confused.

Anyway, Safari doesn't, as far as I know, let you pick stylesheets. And IE obviously doesn't. Also, not even Firefox will actually remember your choice, making the ability completely useless anyway, unless coupled with Javascript on the page to save the setting.

> The Futaba template is missing the "No File" checkbox next to the File field in the Post New Thread area.

That's because Kareha has no "No File" check in the first place, and I'm not sure I want to add code just for that (since it'd have to be optional anyway).

>>145

>does that mean you approve of removing the style selector on subpages?

I was referring to the entire board, but as you later explained, it seems it can never be removed completely. Though removing it from subpages wouldn't be a bad idea I guess.

>Kareha has no "No File" check in the first place

That's what I thought, but then why is it in the Reply pages?

Other: Have you considered multi-page links with intervals of 100 posts at the top of subpages (ie, 1-, 101-, 201-)? Red, bold thread filesizes displayed near the bottom of subpages?

Something else to consider: separating the board description/rules template from the board- or site-wide announcements. Check out http://0ch.mine.nu/test/read.cgi/jikken/1120050851 to see what I mean.

> Red, bold thread filesizes displayed near the bottom of subpages?

I support this, especially if thread-closing by filesize should be implemented.

Some minor things
1) rename the RENZOKU constants to something that makes sense
2) Have the string to sage and fusianasan defined as a constant in config
3) A specific string for ID:Heaven instead of anything in the email field
4) Cookie preferences such as "Don't use expanding textarea" which leaves it small or big.. or another option for that choice as well; an option to not save Name/Email automatically; anything else that is useful?
5) Seperation of sage et al from the email field to something else...
I think a checkbox works better than putting something in the link field, but that can always be left as working too. It would be nice to know if the name is underlined that it has something other than sage rather than putting the cursor over it and reading the status bar. Strip things from the email field, append (sage) to the Name line?

> 3) A specific string for ID:Heaven instead of anything in the email field

Isn't that already an option in the config?

> 5) Seperation of sage et al from the email field to something else...

Strong oppose! I am of the (strong! lol) opinion that the current situation is the one working the best and also that it is widely accepted on almost all similiar board scripts (save for Shiichan and one obscure Japanese discussion board script that I once stumbled upon).

Previous discussion of this can be found here:
http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1102984488/

> That's what I thought, but then why is it in the Reply pages?

Er, that's a bug I guess.

> 1) rename the RENZOKU constants to something that makes sense

I dunno, they're pretty useless anyway, as has been pointed out, so I don't know if I care enough to change them.

> 2) Have the string to sage and fusianasan defined as a constant in config

I dunno, if different boards use different strings, that will only make for immense confusion.

> 3) A specific string for ID:Heaven instead of anything in the email field

Well, the only string that makes sense is sage, but yes, I should implement the Heaven-on-sage behaviour.

> 4) Cookie preferences such as "Don't use expanding textarea" which leaves it small or big.. or another option for that choice as well; an option to not save Name/Email automatically; anything else that is useful?

Maybe, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort (I'd have to implement a preferences page for it, too).

You may want to consider releasing Kareha & Wakaba under some sort of license at this point, just to make sure that the scripts always stay free for people to use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_license
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_License_Types#Free_software_licenses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft

>>151 It's all public domain, I believe.

>>152
What does that even mean? Does that mean nobody can come along and claim some sort of authorshop/copyright on Kareha or a slightly modified version of Kareha?

>>148

>5) Seperation of sage et al from the email field to something else...

This is kinda what I had pushed for earlier in >>52. I think that separating the sage (aka, "don't bump"), fusianasan (aka, "show IP"), and ID:Heaven (aka, "no ID") functions from any particular post elements in the main scripts would be ideal for implementing Kareha in systems where inputting a certain string to trigger these functions is not intuitive (ie, every board outside of the 2ch/Futaba family). These trigger strings (S_DONTBUMP, S_SHOWIP, S_NOID) and their assignment to a certain form field input could be instead implemented individually in each template.

>2) Have the string to sage and fusianasan defined as a constant in config
>3) A specific string for ID:Heaven instead of anything in the email field

As I mentioned above, this would better work if they could be modified within each template in the list of string variable definitions.

>4) Cookie preferences such as "Don't use expanding textarea" which leaves it small or big.. or another option for that choice as well; an option to not save Name/Email automatically; anything else that is useful?

I like this one, as far as saving name and e-mail inputs go. I occasionally browse 4-ch at school, and it'd be nice for just an option to clear cookies when you're done and don't want anyone else to use your name, e-mail, and deletion password.

What the hell is RENZOKU?

P.S. >>151 is RMS

>>154
Kami! Nice ID.

>>154 YOUdqn!

>>153

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Domain

It means anyone can do whatever they want with it. They can't claim copyright, though, since they didn't create it in the first place. They can modify it an claim copyright on their modifications, at least as long as they're significant enough, but that doesn't affect existing works in the public domain.

> This is kinda what I had pushed for earlier in >>52. I think that separating the sage (aka, "don't bump"), fusianasan (aka, "show IP"), and ID:Heaven (aka, "no ID") functions from any particular post elements in the main scripts would be ideal for implementing Kareha in systems where inputting a certain string to trigger these functions is not intuitive (ie, every board outside of the 2ch/Futaba family). These trigger strings (S_DONTBUMP, S_SHOWIP, S_NOID) and their assignment to a certain form field input could be instead implemented individually in each template.

There's no obvious way to do this, since there has to be code that specifically checks a field and takes certain actions long before the template comes into play. It'd take some sort of plugin system to implement it, and I don't think that's quite called for.

Also >>154 is Kami.

> They can modify it an claim copyright on their modifications, at least as long as they're significant enough, but that doesn't affect existing works in the public domain.

Devil's advocate: What if they make significant changes you would want to add yourself? before you do? Can they then tell you to stop if they license their work first?

Copyright only applies to the literal code, not to features, ideas, or algorithm. Patents do, to some extent, but that's not the issue here. Since I'm not going to write the exact same code, there's little they can do.

>>157
So the functions need to be hardcoded to a post element one way or another? If I wanted to, let's say, create a template for gazo-box or Shiichan (both use checkboxes for sage), I'd need to slightly modify kareha.pl to check that new checkbox input instead of the Link string input?

An interesting limitation. Thanks for explaining.

About permasaging/deleting after a certain thread filesize is reached: would this be the same as a limit on the total number of characters in a thread? Or would we also include WakabaMark formatting, hyperlinks (including navigation), name/date/title headers, reply boxes, and non-Unicode characters in the formula?

>>158
Chances are that most if not all major/fundamental changes made to Kareha's core scripts will clash with the philosophy of most people here (including WAHa), and they won't care for them anyway. There really aren't all that many big-bang end-user features left to be implemented in Kareha before it loses its minimalist charm.

P.S. Reminder for >>85

RENZOKU are the flood detection things... even if they are useless MAX_POSTS_PER_MINUTE makes a lot more sense than RENZOKU2

3) was about a string to trigger ID:Heaven, not a constant for the Heaven part (which is already configurable)

Re: email/link field

Just because it works one way on 2ch/whatever does not mean it is the best way. Having 'fusianasan' as the only way to trigger the effect is just narrow-minded. Functions should have descriptive names to the people using them; should we keep the field names in Japanese because the Japanese have them in Japanese? Having all of the applicable things configurable is something that makes sense, and you can easily have both 'fusianasan' and 'show_ip' that work at the same time. Frankly, the combinations of many things into unrelated fields is a design flaw. What if you want to use a name/trip and fusianasan? What if your email address contains the string 'sage'? What if you want to sage a thread, but have an ID still?
I think the confusion of existing users is worth reducing the learning curve and improving the intuitiveness.

I'm not saying that the default behaviour needs to change, but being able to easily configure the strings used allows for easier localization.

I probably misspelled fusianasan too, why should I have to remember something so foreign?

Well, there are some issues to consider here:

• Hardly anybody needs to ever use fusianasan. It's a gimmick. Design decisions should not be made around it.
• The strings may be strange, and combining fields isn't the best design possible, but this is a 0ch clone, after all. If I were designing something from scratch, I'd do things differently, but as it is, people are expecting 0ch behaviour, and it would confuse them if the script worked like 0ch in some ways but not others.
• I might consider adding additional strings that trigger sage and fusianasan, but I'm not sure what they should be.

In the end, people actually enjoy the 0ch quirkiness. I know I do. I know about designing good interfaces, but there's something fun about an interface that is a little bit quirky, as long as it doesn't get in your way, and these things don't.

> Frankly, the combinations of many things into unrelated fields is a design flaw.

I don't think so, not in these cases. What's the alternative? Having a different field for fusianasan, a new checkbox for sage, etc.? That's just cluttering up the interface.

> What if you want to use a name/trip and fusianasan?

Then just make one post with your name/trip and one with fusianasan and let your ID show up in both.
fusiansan is just intended for rare or special cases anyway, as is the whole subject of identification on anonymous message boards.

> What if your email address contains the string 'sage'?

Huh?

> What if you want to sage a thread, but have an ID still?

Then the board has to be configurated to just do that (it already can).

> why should I have to remember something so foreign?

It's rarely needed anyway. Also, these things are pretty easy to remember. "sage" and "fusianasan" is all there is, really.

>>161

>3) was about a string to trigger ID:Heaven, not a constant for the Heaven part (which is already configurable)

That's what I was referring to also in >>154 (S_NOID being the theoretical trigger string for ID:Heaven).

Concerning localization: there are certain compromises with input triggers that must be made in order to maintain interoperability with Japanese users coming from 2ch/Futaba. They're not going to care about a system where "sage" and "fusianasan" (in Roman too I'm guessing, can someone confirm this?) don't work in their respective fields. In effect, 2ch set a standard of usability that we need to follow if we want to build a bridge between both communities.

On the flipside, I think there should also be a secondary set of trigger strings that would be more coherent to Western users and universal to all Western boards. Making them configurable from site to site is really dumb, because it would create an unthinkable usability mess. With Shiichan's death, Kareha stands unrivaled, and setting these strings in stone would ingrain them in the culture like "sage" and "fusianasan" have been in Japan. Thinking very optimistically, if a Western BBS site should grow into something large enough for 2channers to strongly take notice of, they would pick up on these triggers and possibly make their own concessions to implement them in 0ch.

What they should be is yet to be determined. Unfortunately, they'll probably have to be pretty dull in comparison to the witty botanical references and word puns in 2ch and Futaba.

>>163

>I don't think so, not in these cases. What's the alternative? Having a different field for fusianasan, a new checkbox for sage, etc.? That's just cluttering up the interface.

Then why not simply boil it all down to the comment field, with trigger strings for inputting the name, e-mail, sage, ID:Heaven, and fusianasan? You can get a lot more minimal with the current interface.

>Huh?

He meant saging a thread just because a part of the actual e-mail address contains the word "sage."

> Huh?

You know, like [email protected].

Shiichan 2000 let you enter "down" to sage and "showip" for fusianasan, but it was mainly just a curiosity and was not used. There's no one English word that does the job of the pseudo-Japanese "sage". Better to have a tick-box and explain to people why it is useful. Or an option for it.

> Then the board has to be configurated to just do that (it already can).

No, 148 is referring to a user-end problem, not a server-end problem.

>>> In the end, people actually enjoy the 0ch quirkiness. I know I do. I know about designing good interfaces, but there's something fun about an interface that is a little bit quirky, as long as it doesn't get in your way, and these things don't.

It does get in your way though, I enumerated cases where this is the case (albeit edge cases).

>>>Then just make one post with your name/trip and one with fusianasan and let your ID show up in both.

fusiansan is just intended for rare or special cases anyway, as is the whole subject of identification on anonymous message boards.

You still end up with no way to link the fusianasan post with the name/trip one without IDs enabled (unless the ID method is known and no secret data is used).

>>>It's rarely needed anyway. Also, these things are pretty easy to remember. "sage" and "fusianasan" is all there is, really.

You spelled it fusiansan once.

Also, how is Kahera unrivaled when there are still large sites that are not running it? Shiichan is still on world4ch, Thorn on parts of wakachan for example.

http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1127713568/l50 is also semi-relevant

Oh:

> Getting back to inconsequential nitpicking: I find the "___ image replies omitted" phrase to be a bit redundant, and for one it confuses me as to whether or not those image replies are separate from text-only replies. How about simply calling it "images"?

Yes, that's a great idea, which is why I've always done just that. You're thinking of 4chan.

> (albeit edge cases)

Which is the crux of the matter - it mostly doesn't matter to the vast majority of users.

> You still end up with no way to link the fusianasan post with the name/trip one without IDs enabled (unless the ID method is known and no secret data is used).

You can use fusianasan with a tripcode, at least on Kareha. I suspect you can on 0ch too, but I haven't checked.

How come this is now the by far biggest thread on this board?

Maybe it's because I'm posting useless replies like this one!

>>165

>There's no one English word that does the job of the pseudo-Japanese "sage".

How about "dontbump" or "nobump"? Using "down" is pretty misleading, since sage doesn't bump a thread up nor down; it just stays in its place until a thread below is bumped.

>>167 orz

In reference WAHa's post in http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1127713568/l50

>It's been suggested to change the no-ID-on-email to no-ID-on-sage

That sounds good to me.

>>170
But my good man, sage means down.

> Also, how is Kahera unrivaled when there are still large sites that are not running it? Shiichan is still on world4ch, Thorn on parts of wakachan for example.

These are temporary problems because the webmasters of both sites are too stubborn to upgrade.

> Better to have a tick-box and explain to people why it is useful. Or an option for it.

Yes, an option. Because I think a tickbox is horrible.

This is a widely used system. There is a very low learning curve here. sage = does not bump thread when replying, that's all there is to know. People can then figure out why it is useful on their own.

And personally, I think sageing should be encouraged more (since the perceptions on it have been pretty much ruined by 4chan). So it helps that it stays in the E-Mail/Link field instead of being purged from the tickbox each time like Shiichan does (interestingly, 4chan's Futallaby does also purge "sage" if written in all minor letters).

> He meant saging a thread just because a part of the actual e-mail address contains the word "sage."
> You know, like [email protected].

Well, then you are out of luck, aren't you? So you want to enter your E-Mail but cannot because then the post wouldn't bump then? Solution: Write it in the comment field, problem fixed.
There is no reason to change well-known keywords for this or even turn this into a frustratingly unconvenient tickbox/checkbox.

> Making them configurable from site to site is really dumb, because it would create an unthinkable usability mess.

Why? Let people figure out things themselves, if they are so keen on changing their keywords. They can get together in their own webmaster threads and figure this out. I don't see why this should be solved here.
Of course I think this is a dumb idea in the first place. Nobody needs to know what fusianasan and sage are. Write a FAQ with two sentences about it and/or let your oldtime users tell newbies. Two frickin' words, and you people talk about it as if it were something like making up a new system of romanization!

> Then why not simply boil it all down to the comment field, with trigger strings for inputting the name, e-mail, sage, ID:Heaven, and fusianasan? You can get a lot more minimal with the current interface.

That's a bit too much. You want to talk about sage and fusianasan in the comment field, not trigger it with it.
I suspect you are joking here, though. Design is about what you can take away and still remain optimal conveniency/efficiency on the user part, not about taking as much away as you are technically capable of.

> You still end up with no way to link the fusianasan post with the name/trip one without IDs enabled (unless the ID method is known and no secret data is used).

You'd figure that people who know what fusianasan is will also know how to trigger IDs.

> You spelled it fusiansan once.

So I misspelled one word once.

Sue me!

> Also, how is Kahera unrivaled when there are still large sites that are not running it? Shiichan is still on world4ch, Thorn on parts of wakachan for example.

Neither world4ch nor Pichan are by any means "large". Also, yes, as Shii said, their webmasters are stubborn.

PS: I just tested fusianasan + tripcode on 2ch, it works fine.

What does Thorn have to do with Kareha? Thorn's counterpart is Wakaba.

Anyway, the version of Shiichan on world4ch is bust. It's not a case of feature versus feature here, Shiichan simply doesn't work. It's not worth comparing until it doesn't break regularly.

If Shii were still working on it might be different, but Shiichan is effectively a dead project which incidentally has a closed and broken version working on world4ch.

> and/or let your oldtime users tell newbies.

Like so? http://wakaba.c3.cx/soc/kareha.pl/1124991549/7

>>178
There will always be pranksters around. This is probably a good example on what matters to trust tripcoders more than anonymous contributors.

Trivia: Here is a list of 2ch kopipe to fool people into using fusianasan:
http://ansitu.xrea.jp/guidance/?fusianasan

>>180

The one with encoded Javascript that makes you post with fusianasan is cute.

>>174

>Let people figure out things themselves, if they are so keen on changing their keywords.

If you really want to use your own custom trigger strings, you can easily search kareha.pl for instances where "sage" and "fusianasan" are used in that context and either replace them with those custom strings or append them as secondary strings. It's not something that warrants additional config.pl parameters.

>>182
That's not what I meant. What I meant was: If people want to change keywords to something, let them figure out at appropriate places what this something should be. Whether it should be "down", "stay_down" or "stay_put" is not really a discussion belongs here, not at this point anyway.

>>183

No, that's just plain wrong. It is very much the job of the programmer to decide on such issues, and make sure they work consistently across boards.

>>184
If people are going to decide to use custom names for paramaters, then there isn't much you can do about it anyway, or is there?

No, but that's not the point.

Another topic: since dynamic pages eat up CPU in order to rebuild pages according to URL parameters, what would be the likelihood of the current dynamic thread subpages having a significantly adverse effect in this aspect if a board were to grow to 2ch-sized proportions? Should there be a consideration to make these pages as static as the front page?

Also, let's put out a partition to kill secure tripcodes (unless they originated from 0ch/Futaba) and captcha (until we find a way to implement similar functionality without requiring it in the form of a GIF/PNG image), and add functionality for multiple uploads in one post.

And is there any practical way that Kareha can be modified to run multiple (even nested) boards in a single installation?

> partition to kill secure tripcodes

signed

> add functionality for multiple uploads in one post.

I think this was decided against before.

> Another topic: since dynamic pages eat up CPU in order to rebuild pages according to URL parameters, what would be the likelihood of the current dynamic thread subpages having a significantly adverse effect in this aspect if a board were to grow to 2ch-sized proportions?

The effect would be miniscule in comparison to the huge increase in bandwidth that would result from sending the entire static thread pages.

The "entire thread" link can easily be changes to link to the files in /res/ instead of going through the script, but that would make it somewhat less convenient when you want to consturct custom URLs, so I haven't done it.

> Also, let's put out a partition to kill secure tripcodes (unless they originated from 0ch/Futaba)

Why? Even if 0ch or Futaba implemented secure tripcodes, you wouldn't get the same secure tripcode there as on another board. That's the nature of the security.

> captcha (until we find a way to implement similar functionality without requiring it in the form of a GIF/PNG image)

That's even more non-sensical. Nobody on the entire internet has figured out a reasonable way to implement captcha except by using images, and the only boards that use them are image boards where you have to load images anyway. And finally, they aren't just there to annoy you, people do actually try to flood boards, and they are stopped by the captcha.

> And is there any practical way that Kareha can be modified to run multiple (even nested) boards in a single installation?

Not without doing a lot of changes throughout the code, and not without breaking current installations.

Also, for multiple board installations, use symlinks to allow you to keep just one installation of the main code files.

> the only boards that use them are image boards where you have to load images anyway.

Correction: http://www.akatsukimanga.com/kareha/

> The "entire thread" link can easily be changes to link to the files in /res/ instead of going through the script, but that would make it somewhat less convenient when you want to consturct custom URLs, so I haven't done it.

A better solution would be to use mod_rewrite to rewrite all /kareha.pl/$number/ links to /res/$number.html
It schould be a lot faster then running the script and the links stay the same.

>>Well, then you are out of luck, aren't you? So you want to enter your E-Mail but cannot because then the post wouldn't bump then? Solution: Write it in the comment field, problem fixed.

There is no reason to change well-known keywords for this or even turn this into a frustratingly unconvenient tickbox/checkbox.
Having a specific trigger to trigger ID would also work.

>discussion of only one comment box, then you couldn't talk about sage/fusianasan/whatever

You could only trigger the functions in a specific format, say

:link-sage
:name-blah#faggot

lol comment

I do not believe this was an actual request, but it is obviously possible and usable. Another way would be escaping keywords that you want to post.

> partition to kill secure tripcodes

Why? If you are going to get rid of secure tripcodes you should get rid of tripcodes by the same reasons. On another note, why have I seen partition instead of petition multiple times?

>So I misspelled one word once. Sue me!

My point was that it is unnesessarily obtuse, not nit-picking that you misspelled it.

>This is a widely used system. There is a very low learning curve here. sage = does not bump thread when replying, that's all there is to know. People can then figure out why it is useful on their own.

You would think there is a low learning curve, but that is not really the case. For example, on an imageboard, what effect do you have making a sage post (with no real content) with prune oldest and a permasage limit? What about prune oldest with a permasage limit that excludes sage replies?

>trigger replacements

I'm not sure what to replace sage with, if anything. Down certainly doesn't describe it (to me it implies the reverse of age, which is not the case). don't_bump or dont_bump? show_host or show_ip works for fusianasan imo... show_ID to trigger ID?

> Why?

I am not the user who initiated this parition but I find them to be triggered far too often.

> On another note, why have I seen partition instead of petition multiple times?

An old imageboard meme. Don't ask!

>>193

> For example,

Different boards having different settings does not at all touch the question whether the learning curve of sage="does not bump thread" is low or not. It's up to the admins to tell their users what a particular modification on their board implies for "sage" - hopefully in a more responsible way than on 4chan.

>>189

>The effect would be miniscule in comparison to the huge increase in bandwidth that would result from sending the entire static thread pages.

How about a config.pl parameter to split up thread subpages into X posts per page? The navigation links already use 100 posts per page for practically everything except "Last 50 posts".

Hmm, I just remembered: >> links would not work at all with static pages. Not good.

>Why? Even if 0ch or Futaba implemented secure tripcodes, you wouldn't get the same secure tripcode there as on another board. That's the nature of the security.

Right, I guess it was dumb to mention 0ch/Futaba in the first place. The point is, as you said yourself, tripcodes are a gimmick, and if someone wants to maintain a persistent identity across multiple boards and sites (ie, everyone here with a tripcode), they have no choice but to use ordinary tripcodes. Secure tripcodes are useless because they limit your identity to a single board, supposing each board/site's cipher key is different -- which it should be, since that's the point of having a secure tripcode in the first place. No one should be so paranoid about a tripcode that they'd need to have a different one per board/site.

>Not without doing a lot of changes throughout the code, and not without breaking current installations.

Shouldn't we sacrifice some backwards compatibility for a more robust and scalable design? It might even be possible to provide an upgrade.pl for old threads.

>>193

>You could only trigger the functions in a specific format, say...

That's a cool idea, though for now it would have to be left alone if we want to keep Kareha compatible with 2ch/Futaba conventions.

>>195
Exactly. The methods and the effects of saging a thread are separate subjects.

P.S. I recently discovered "rXX-XX" for threads in /soc/. How exactly does this work? From the sound of it, it's supposed to randomize the post order, but when I hit refresh I get the same order.

>>196
Actually, a solution to >> links with static pages is to simply make them reference a certain point on a certain page number for that thread (ie, http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/1129153864/index2.html#197).

> but when I hit refresh I get the same order.

Browser cache. Try shift-refresh.

It doesn't take a specific range, just >>r30 for 30 random posts.

> Right, I guess it was dumb to mention 0ch/Futaba in the first place. The point is, as you said yourself, tripcodes are a gimmick, and if someone wants to maintain a persistent identity across multiple boards and sites (ie, everyone here with a tripcode), they have no choice but to use ordinary tripcodes. Secure tripcodes are useless because they limit your identity to a single board, supposing each board/site's cipher key is different -- which it should be, since that's the point of having a secure tripcode in the first place. No one should be so paranoid about a tripcode that they'd need to have a different one per board/site.

True, they're of limited usefulness, but people like admins might prefer to use them. And there are certain cases were you might use them temporarily for various purposes. I wrote the code already, so I might as well leave it in. It has some uses at least.

> Shouldn't we sacrifice some backwards compatibility for a more robust and scalable design? It might even be possible to provide an upgrade.pl for old threads.

I think I'm too lazy to do it. It's kind of hairy. Besides, as I said, you can remove a lot of the drawbacks of seprate installations by using symlinks.

>>191

Thanks for reminding me that I need to fix the CSS for the captcha!