So, as Xee is almost done, and I'm mostly waiting for external contributions, I decided it was time to start working on the Legendary Next Update for Kareha and Wakaba.

Only problem is, it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what needs to be done. Most of it is mentioned SOMEWHERE on the board, though. So this is your chance to pipe up with your pet feature request, or if you're feeling really helpful, to dig out some old posts that mention things that need fixing.

Hop to it!

Nothing specific, just protecting against any possible future ones.

So, I made the All threads page a lot fancier. Might need some shift-reloading to get the proper CSS.

Is this about done, besides the admin bit? I'm getting a bit tired and distractions are looming to the left and right.

style:none plz!

rel=nofollow for internal links as discussed in http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1127092367/

And maybe this: http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1126586277/5

About rel=nofollow: What links should have it? Obviously not the "entire thread" link, but the l50 links in the thread list sort of need it, otherwise the search engine will never find them in the first place. But that means the l50 links will end up in the index.

You could add entire thread links to either the "num" or "posts" column in subback.

>>321
Wait, why should l50 links be indexed/cached? IMO the only links that should be on Google at all are main pages and "entire thread" links.

Some final points (I hope) before the whole thing is wrapped up:

• The CSS in the All threads page is unsightly. Is there a way to properly wrap the outer color border(s) around the table of threads?

• I still say that the "Navigation: " text is extraneous when people can clearly see what the links do. Also still partitioning for 0ch-style error pages (with displayed user host and all).

• Now that we do have filesize indicators in the backlog page of mode_message, do you still find it useless to have the red bold filesizes near the bottom of thread subpages?

• Does mode_message now work in PAGE_GENERATION => 'paged'?

• Idea: forced anonymous/sage/ID/fusianasan by IP/thread/board/whole site (some of these combinations already exist, I know)?

• Finally, I imagine that the permasage/close/delete functions in kareha.pl will be easily interchangeable among the conditions in post_stuff(). Can you confirm this?

> forced fusianasan

that seems kind of evil.

>>324
I've heard they use it on a per-IP basis for troublesome posters on 2ch. It could also discourage people from being jisakujien (supposing ID is disabled) or posting in a certain thread unless they're totally willing to have their host revealed.

> Wait, why should l50 links be indexed/cached?

Because the only way for the search engine to find the old threads is to go through the l50 links. I'm taking the advice of >>322 though.

> The CSS in the All threads page is unsightly. Is there a way to properly wrap the outer color border(s) around the table of threads?

You need to explain what you're talking about before I can do anything about that. What style, and what does "wrap the outer color border(s) around" mean?

> I still say that the "Navigation: " text is extraneous when people can clearly see what the links do. Also still partitioning for 0ch-style error pages (with displayed user host and all).

It's there because freefloating unlabelled links look weird.

> Now that we do have filesize indicators in the backlog page of mode_message, do you still find it useless to have the red bold filesizes near the bottom of thread subpages?

They're there, but only if you enable pruning by size.

> Does mode_message now work in PAGE_GENERATION => 'paged'?

No. I'm too lazy to figure what that's supposed to do, and I don't think anybody actually wants to use that in the first place.

> Idea: forced anonymous/sage/ID/fusianasan by IP/thread/board/whole site (some of these combinations already exist, I know)?

There's no database to keep IP data in, and I'd prefer to keep the script completely agnostic to IP addresses.

> Finally, I imagine that the permasage/close/delete functions in kareha.pl will be easily interchangeable among the conditions in post_stuff(). Can you confirm this?

No, because I don't know what you mean.

What about a(n) (optional) preview page? It would be nice, especially with the multiple formating options. It also allows most of the benefits of being able to edit posts, without being able to edit posts. I don't know how often I've screw up a quote because it didn't look like multiple lines but it was.

Is there a reason why the post box is so small and pushed to the side?

Forced fusianasan would be fine I think, if they had advanced warning.

> What about a(n) (optional) preview page?

I've been considering that, but it's a goddamn pain to implement. It'd be pretty useful, though. Also, it could include the spell checker someone requested way back at the beginning of time.

>>326

>You need to explain what you're talking about before I can do anything about that.?

See attached screenshot. It's in every style but Pseud0ch.

>No. I'm too lazy to figure what that's supposed to do, and I don't think anybody actually wants to use that in the first place.

Well the functionality is already in kareha.pl, right? All you need is some modifications to the mode_message template. You can check out the 2ch-like boards on Futaba for reference, though I'm pretty sure I've seen other 2ch-like boards that implement multi-paged functionality with a different layout. Personally, it isn't all that big a deal if it's just a template issue though.

>There's no database to keep IP data in, and I'd prefer to keep the script completely agnostic to IP addresses.

No need for a database, just a text file. You're right about storing IPs, though, but then how can you implement a banning system? Do you use an encrypted IP like the algorithm to generate ID codes?

>No, because I don't know what you mean.

I mean that (for example) if I wanted to replace the permasaging function under the MAX_POSTS condition (permasage after X posts) with the thread-closing function (close after X posts), all it would require is a simple replacement of the proper function references in post_stuff(), correct?

>>327

>(optional) preview page

Excessive, methinks.

>Is there a reason why the post box is so small and pushed to the side?

Because mode_message is modeled after the 0ch layout. To compensate for the smallness, it expands automatically when you click inside it.

>Forced fusianasan would be fine I think, if they had advanced warning.

This can be easily done manually with rules.html

Oops, here's the screenshot. orz

While we're on that note, can there be a config.pl option to toggle between opening file attachments in a new window or in the current window?

>>323-324
The 2channel moderation request forms that are mods of 0ch use 強制リモホ, which is Forced_Remote_Host, more or less. And it makes sense, there.

Forced_IP is only enabled on the "Siberia super-news flash" board: http://etc3.2ch.net/siberia/

And I have no idea what that board is about...

>>327-328
All of this would be better handled by an external application. I think you are putting way too much work into user gimmicks as it is.

More options means putting more buttons, links, etc. into the interface. I am still bothered by the "More options...", but I am just a text purist (doing my fair share of AA, though) anyway, so meh meh... ( ´･ω･｀)

Suggestion / Request

Making "More options..." an option in the configs.

Seems sensible, when you already have the ability to turn off WakabaMark as a board admin. Also, it will make me stop whining (a bit).

>>333
The whole point of websites is to implement things without the external application. I don't understand the argument for OH NO ANOTHER BUTTON MY WHOLE LIFE IS RUINNED crowd. If you don't like the extra buttons why don't you remove them with an external application and/or preferences? When you are talking about formating options, a preview makes sense. Are you going to set up your thrid-party application for every configuration of tags supported for every board?

If a feature is of a wide enough audience, it should be included. I'm sure nearly everyone could use a preview every once in a while, whereas something like a Bible quotation functionality would not have wide use.

I don't see what's so bad about >>330. The alternative is to force the table to be full width, which will make it uglier (because in HTML all columns will become wider, including the skinniest ones), and harder to read.

> No need for a database, just a text file. You're right about storing IPs, though, but then how can you implement a banning system? Do you use an encrypted IP like the algorithm to generate ID codes?

Banning is done through Apache, which really makes more sense than doing it in the script. I don't want to re-invent the wheel for that.

> I mean that (for example) if I wanted to replace the permasaging function under the MAX_POSTS condition (permasage after X posts) with the thread-closing function (close after X posts), all it would require is a simple replacement of the proper function references in post_stuff(), correct?

No, they're done at different different places, because they are essentially different functions. The permasage behaviour doesn't actually permasage a thread, it only refrains from bumping it. There's no permsage flag added to the thread. The closing, on the other hand, does add a flag to the thread.

> Making "More options..." an option in the configs.
> Seems sensible, when you already have the ability to turn off WakabaMark as a board admin.

No. And I actually removed the DISABLE_WAKABAMARK option since it's no longer really needed. The replacement will be an option to select the default markup for a board, which makes much more sense overall.

> I don't understand the argument for OH NO ANOTHER BUTTON MY WHOLE LIFE IS RUINNED crowd

It's all a design & layout question. I'd like to have the interface reduced to what is absolutely neccessary, esp. since I do not think many people really want to even bother or bother very often with the whole markup question.

> The replacement will be an option to select the default markup for a board, which makes much more sense overall.

I agree, this seems to make the most sense. I understand the "More options..." will not be showing up on boards with fixed settings, so I'll shut my mouth from now on. Apologies to all who I've been bothering.

> I'd like to have the interface reduced to what is absolutely neccessary

That's why there is a "More options..." link, instead of putting the controls there on every single thread everywhere.

>>336
IMO minimalist web applications like Kareha should only focus on core content/functionality and leave the inconsequential presentation options up to browser extensions so that each user can tweak them to his whim. That's why I was pushing to offload the CSS selector to an extension.

>>337
Here's a better example, I think. Even if we can't remove the excessive side borders, is there a way to at least have rounded corners?

On formatting options: I think >>338 fails to understand that leaving the formatting options up to each individual user is a good thing by all means. Besides, they are absolutely necessary to the interface and core functionality, just like the Name and URL fields are. Preview functionality, on the other hand, should be implemented in an extension.

I think the issue that people have with the formatting options is that we don't have a Japanese counterpart to blindly model it after. Since we're going at this on our own, nobody is quite sure how it should be done. I'd like to see how it turns out on mode_image (if you feel the need to include it at all). :)

There are some inconsistencies in both the Blue Moon and Futaba styles, with regard to the size and formatting of text labels in the Create new thread and Reply form areas.
The spacing of the Create new thread title is off in Futaba, Headline, and Toothpaste.
None of the styles that utilize rounded corner borders have them in the Create new thread area.

I don't see any inconsistencies in >>341 except for the rounded corners.

>>342
Well, for example, in both forms the text labels are bolded when they shouldn't be, in Futaba and Blue Moon. If you take a look at Blue Moon, the text labels in Create new thread are larger than those in the Reply box.

>>343

"When they shouldn't be?" They've always been bolded.

>>344 orz

http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1114201493/l50

Or use some sort of filter to replace them characters with underscores on upload.
This offcourse for files that keep their original filename.

Thanks. I did it the hard way and put in the proper transformations everywhere so filenames can be kept intact, though.

I notice some weirdness with the CSS changes sometimes. For example, the first post on a -100 page will sometimes have the first character of the post enlarged. >>2 looks something like
\
/>2 until it is mouse-overed or you change the CSS, but then it goes back to large again on refresh. Also can happen with lowercase letters. Some of the field labels also change size from refreshing in a certain CSS versus just switching to it.

>It's all a design & layout question. I'd like to have the interface reduced to what is absolutely neccessary, esp. since I do not think many people really want to even bother or bother very often with the whole markup question.

Why have a name field or link field? For the majority of posts they are not used, or only used for sage. As stated earlier, they are not even needed for the bare minimum of usage. You want to prove it is you posting? Use a gpg signature or something and a third-party extension, it is just fluff that is not needed at all!

I'm all for having a system that is easy to modify to the end-user's wants and needs. However, there are going to be plenty of users that are not hardcore enough to make or use such options. Therefore, the normal functionality should be pretty usable.

People seem to pop-up whenever something that would change the interface to shout it down. They seem to fear any change and normally give no reason other than it would clutter things up or some nonsense. Does the CSS selector -really- get in your way? It is probably a whole ten pixels! Is having the More options thing really ruining your experience, or are you just against it on some principle? Personally, I would move it below the comment text-area or something, as now the tab amounts between the main fields has changed.

GDLib for thumbnails: http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1113869490/5

> Does the CSS selector -really- get in your way?
> Is having the More options thing really ruining your experience,

Yes and yes and I already stated why.

I am sure you know this but text markup takes place on a whole different level than identification/bumping issues. Your comment about pgp signatures is very funny but I will not honour it with a comment.

I think you're a bit nutty, >>350...

At least i got 350

>>348

That's a Firefox bug.

Gah, I am totally confused about what to do about the admin interface. Separate script? Built-in? Javascript? How do I display the data? I have no idea!

I'm not sure I want to make a ban system. I'd rather just make it easy to interface with a simple banning script that does whatever's needed for the server it's running on.

>>354
admin.pl with a separate HTML page in ./admin (so it can be accessed simply by appending "/admin" to the board URL). It should have every possible admin feature available in kareha.pl, including rebuilding caches, modifying the spamlist, and nuking the board.

...and admin posts that override all board/thread restrictions (ie, bumping a permasaged thread and possibly even posting in closed threads).

>>357
by "including," I mean "plus."

Too late! Already released!

>>360
Doesn't mean we can't have separate releases for special scripts. :)