So, as Xee is almost done, and I'm mostly waiting for external contributions, I decided it was time to start working on the Legendary Next Update for Kareha and Wakaba.

Only problem is, it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what needs to be done. Most of it is mentioned SOMEWHERE on the board, though. So this is your chance to pipe up with your pet feature request, or if you're feeling really helpful, to dig out some old posts that mention things that need fixing.

Hop to it!

How about listing what dmpk2k or you have done already?

1. Split threads and posts into separate tables. You're repeating the lasthit and parent column over and over.

Kareha:

• Conforming of navigation to 0ch standards for conveniency, efficiency, etc., i.e.
• Navigation links also at the bottom of the thread pages
• "First 100" to be replaced with "Next 100" (and "Previous 100") in thread pages
• First post always showing up, even for later quoted ranges. Currently, you can supress this on 0ch by identing "n" before the post range.
• Default l50 links in all lists

• Automated archiving, i.e.
• Automatic thread closing at a configured number of replies and/or thread size (recommended default values: 1000 posts or 512KB)
• Automatic closing and moving of threads that do not get any activity in a certain timeframe (based on average activity frequency of the board)

• Bonus features (not really important):
• Fusianasan (reveal hostname by entering fusianasan or [string] into Name field)
• Customizable Capcodes (please more than just "Admin", perhaps fancy colours)

Wakaba:

• Better handling of the code that automatically inserts the >> links for quote-replies. Right now it inserts them numerous times if you go back and forth several times before actually hitting "submit".
• Reintroduction of "Marked for deletion (old)" (it's just handy to have that)
• Prune-limit mode that is defined by number of files or size sum of files on a board

Additionally, I'd like WakabaMark to be fixed somehow.
I don't know how, though. You know my resentments.

Finally, thanks for your fine work throughout all this time.
It is appreciated!

I fixed the Javascript a bit, and uploaded it for these boards. Try shift-reloading to get the new code, and see if cookies work better now that I'm not using cargo-cult code.

(Lots of stuff in here, click "whole post"!)

> How about listing what dmpk2k or you have done already?

Truth be told, I haven't even looked over his contributions yet. I'm doing some work on Kareha first. He did bandwidth load balancing for Wakaba across several servers, and image file archiving, at least. Plus some proxy checking and other goodies.

> Split threads and posts into separate tables. You're repeating the lasthit and parent column over and over.

Bad idea. Adds a lot of code complexity without adding any new functionality. The current solution is simple and robust.

> Automatic closing and moving of threads that do not get any activity in a certain timeframe (based on average activity frequency of the board)

This is nearly impossible to get right, and I don't think I'm going to try unless someone can think up a reliable algorithm that uses the data that is availble (not much).

> Reintroduction of "Marked for deletion (old)" (it's just handy to have that)

I tried several times, and concluded it wasn't worth the code and database overhead it would take. This feature is relatively easy to implement for Futaba-style post number limited boards (and Futaba implements it really stupidly), but it gets tricky when you have different deletion modes and want to do it right.

> Prune-limit mode that is defined by number of files or size sum of files on a board

Size limit is already implemented. I might add file limit, but I'm not sure it's all that useful, when you already have the size limit.

The rest, I agree with, and I will try to get most of it done. I'm sure there's some more stuff hidden in old threads, though!

What wakaba needs is that SILLY_ANONYMOUS too! :D

> Reintroduction of "Marked for deletion (old)"

I actually don't like that, and think wakaba should no longer use the futaba style of dropping threads by default. Why not use the least-popular option instead? If a thread is in demand, let it live.

>>9
That's an option, you pick which one you want.

>>9
I mentioned the option because on highly active boards it's helpful to know which threads will be gone in the next few minutes.

>>10
Exactly, but considering a lot of people can't make heads from tails in config.pl, how about a saner default?

>>11
That's true, but if least-popular threads are set to be deleted, instead of oldest-first, you don't have to guess.

I have always found that it's more difficult than one would think to implement features that will measure "popularity" in a satisfying way that isn't open to abuse in one way or another.

I've been meaning to change some of the defaults away from Futaba-style to saner behaviours. Any suggestions for what to change are welcome. So far:

• Pruning set to furthest-back instead of oldest.
• Size limit instead of post number limit, maybe?
• I'll add thread closing to Kareha, but I was thinking of setting the default behaviour to never permasage or close threads.

> Pruning set to furthest-back instead of oldest.

I don't like this one. You just have to continually age a topic (until it hits the permasage treshold) in order for it so survive a long time. Normal users might have good reason to ignore simply it, though...

> Size limit instead of post number limit, maybe?

Sounds good.

> I was thinking of setting the default behaviour to never permasage or close threads.

I guess I don't have a strong opinion on this one. As long as the values will be customizable, I don't really care, I suppose.
Also: I just noticed that "¦" in tripcodes will work correctly but turn into "�U" through the cookie on /soc/ but not on the sandbox.

> Also: I just noticed that "¦" in tripcodes will work correctly but turn into "�U" through the cookie on /soc/ but not on the sandbox.

This might have been worded a bit akwardly. What I meant was: Tricodes work fine with ¦ on both the sandbox and /soc/&/sup/, although the latter boards will strangely turn the ¦ into a U? after the reply button was hit.

>>16

Yes, it's throwing Javascript errors for me if I use that character. Gonna look into that some more.

>>16

What browser are you using? I think I've tracked down the problem, and it's most likely a browser bug. The ancient Firebird (not fox, even) version I tested at work had the same bug (character set issues in the escape() and unescape() functions). It looks like your browser also doesn't follow the spec for how they are supposed to work.

>>18
Firefox 1.0.7, WindowsXP Pro.

>>19

I can't reproduce this on Firefox 1.0.4 nor Safari on the Mac, but that ancient Firebird had a similar problem (but even worse).

Anyone else? Try post with a | in your name.

Also, here's something that would be useful, but is a bit more work than I feel like doing right now:

A simple thumbnailing program, that has no external dependencies and can be compiled to a maximally compatible, statically linked executable, for those who have hosts that don't have any image processing software, and don't allow you to compile your own. Should be able to load GIF, JPEG and PNG images, and produce JPEG thumbnails. Should contain all the source code it needs without linking to external libraries (it's easy enough to just stuff libjpeg, libpng, and zlib into the distro).

If anyone is lacking a programming project, feel free to take up this one! If you do, I can provide some fairly fast and good-looking image scaling code (or just rip it out of mangariini yourself).

> statically linked executable

I have to disagree with this. It should run in perl too.

• If you're running wakaba, obviously perl must be there
• Most hosts that library-poor don't provide compilers (or shell) either

The point is to make a portable file, so you do not /have/ to compile it on the host. Statically linked lets you use libraries that the host does not have.

Sure, doing it in perl is an option though.

>>20
"|" is not "¦"

Anyway, test with |

| stays |

Test with ¦

Weird, ¦ now stays ¦.
Testing #¦ now.

Funky, works... I am pretty sure the error has something to do with the characters preceeding the "¦" in the unprocessed tripcode. It begins with a "`"

testing #`¦

testing #`abcdef¦

Well, both >>30 and >>31 didn't change the ¦ into ?U so I am out of ideas what happened...

>>32

Your browser momentarily regressed to an old bug and then got better? Who can tell?

>>22

Running in pure perl would be ideal, portability-wise, but in practice implementing a JPEG loader and saver from scratch in Perl is both a lot more work than anyone wants to do, and the result will also be too slow.

As was already stated, making a statically linked executable lets you distribute pre-compiled binaries that people can just upload along with the script.

Tell me more about these pre-compiled binaries. I thought that was impractical...I mean, instruction set differences and so on.

Well, a lot of machines run on x86 these days, so that covers a lot of it. And you could pre-compile for a couple of other architectures, and have it pretty much covered. Linux and unixes in general make it ridiculously hard to distribute binaries, as opposed to Windows or Mac OS, but it's still possible with a bit of trickery. Avoiding dynamic libraries helps a lot.

I had a number of good old threads from this board bookmarked so I could read them later and wrap my head around their ideas, but then I lost them all in a hard drive crash (strike two, Western Digital!). I also had a number of Japanese BBS's linked from this board bookmarked so I could take a look at their software's functionality and get some other ideas.

Anyway, these are all non-template suggestions:

• Topical category metadata in new thread creation so only one instance is necessary per site (further fine-grained behavior with PATH_INFO would let you nest one category inside another and view multiple categories of threads at once).

• Thorough search functionality a-la notchan, using PATH_INFO. This might not be possible without implementing a per-post metadata system though.

• Elaborating on the above, per-post metadata for "sage" status, for future-proofing in case someone wants to remove the functionality from the e-mail field (onto a checkbox, for example).

• config.pl parameter for a generic image that takes the place of a deleted image (ie, Hello Kitty)

• Fine-grained banning options that let you choose whether or not the user is blocked from reading a board, posting to a board, or both. Another parameter defines the duration of his ban ('0' for permaban), and another defines a reason/message displayed when the user tries to access a board.

• Replace HTML error pages with dialog box equivalents using JavaScript.

• Kill user deletion. I can't see any case for when it'd have constructive uses.

• Conversion to mod_perl?

I also have an early idea swimming around in my head about only bumping threads a few positions up, instead of to the top. Another idea is actively bumping threads down, either by a few positions or to the bottom. I'm not exactly sure yet what good it'd be for.

Also...

>* I'll add thread closing to Kareha, but I was thinking of setting the default behaviour to never permasage or close threads.

I think this is ideal for the time, until we have enough statistical data to derive thorough auto-permasage and auto-delete/archive algorithms. Just add the functionality for mods to manually set these statuses, but remove the "permasage at 1000" behavior.

The standalone thumbnailer project is a great idea too. As a suggestion, how about adding functionality to also read and thumbnail document files like TXT, PDF, and DOC?

Oops, forgot to link the first point to my original thread: http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1127326007

Oh, and see if dmpk2k is willing to port over the proxy detection and load-balancing/distributed server cluster functions to Kareha. Those would be neat.

> Thorough search functionality a-la notchan, using PATH_INFO. This might not be possible without implementing a per-post metadata system though.

I think this not something that needs to be part of the software itself.
Besides, Google mostly provides that function just fine with site:blahblahblah.com blah

Also, what is "user deletion"?

>>38
Sorry, I guess I should've worded that more clearly. I was referring to the ability for users to delete their own posts. It's counter-productive to discussions when a user deletes his own post and a quick replier later quotes or references it. It also encourages users to be lazy with posting, because they can always go back and hide their mistakes.

Oh okay.

I agree, for Kareha at least.

> metadata

Not sure, that would require a database redesign and I don't want to force people with a current install to do that. Also, it seems something like that would work better for a whole new script, properly designed around the idea.

> config.pl parameter for a generic image that takes the place of a deleted image (ie, Hello Kitty)

Ah, good, been meaning to do, forgot about.

> Fine-grained banning options that let you choose whether or not the user is blocked from reading a board, posting to a board, or both. Another parameter defines the duration of his ban ('0' for permaban), and another defines a reason/message displayed when the user tries to access a board.

None of those seem useful to me, because I'm of the opinion that bans are to prevent abuse, not to punish users.

> Replace HTML error pages with dialog box equivalents using JavaScript.

Would require a bunch of hidden-iframing and such. I'd like to do a complete re-design full of javascript trickery, and this idea would fit better in such a context... That is to say, I'm lazy and the current version is robust, and I'm loathe to go around changing it, since it would introduce new problems.

> Kill user deletion. I can't see any case for when it'd have constructive uses.

On image boards, it has a very definite use - people do fuck up and post in the wrong thread, or create new threads. It's better if they can clean up after themselves. In Kareha, you can already disable deletion.

> Conversion to mod_perl?

As far as I know, it should work in mod_perl already, modulo some prototype bugs. I'll try to get those fixed.

> The standalone thumbnailer project is a great idea too. As a suggestion, how about adding functionality to also read and thumbnail document files like TXT, PDF, and DOC?

That would require a LOT of code, especially when you don't want external dependencies, so it's a bit iffy.

Forgot this one:
The general functions of imageboards do not seem to be clear to most people that eventually come around, the influx of total newbies is still big. Many neither know what sage is, how to properly reply to threads, what tripcodes are, etc.
Because of that, I believe it would be good to include a default link at the bottom of the unordered list at the bottom of the new thread form that links to http://wakaba.c3.cx/docs/docs.html#UsersGuide

Relevant:
http://dis.iichan.net/idc/kareha.pl/1128824710/12-

PS: I always wanted to say this: The # anchors on the TiddlyWiki automatically scroll me (FF, 1.0.7) just below the actual text box of the entry. Is that a bug, a feature or... ?

Uh, kind of a bug. I really should fix it, but, lazy.

>>41

>database redesign

You mean requiring SQL software, or just making backwards-incompatible changes that would screw up old threads?

>prevent abuse

Are you only referring to flooding and spamming, or also trolls and flamewars?

Finally, out of curiosity: how much of the functionality in the .js file do you think could be properly implemented into a new or existing perl script?

> You mean requiring SQL software, or just making backwards-incompatible changes that would screw up old threads?

I mean, needing to alter the table that is already in the database. I don't want to try to do that any more than I have to, as it's pretty hard to get right in a database-independent manner.

> Are you only referring to flooding and spamming, or also trolls and flamewars?

Yes, only flooding and spamming. Trolling and flamewars are not a problem one should use banning to try and solve.

> Finally, out of curiosity: how much of the functionality in the .js file do you think could be properly implemented into a new or existing perl script?

Well, if you serve up dynamic pages, you can do the form-filling on the server, but that's about it. The rest is dynamic stuff.

>>46
Well, I haven't checked to see exactly where the ban functionality exists in Kareha, but my idea is something along the lines of: (1) encrypting the offender's IP, (2) writing it to a bans.txt list, and (3) writing a parameter next to the IP specifying the time when the ban should be lifted. Of course, you also need underlying code to check bans.txt every time a user tries to post or reply, and also to remove a ban entry at its specified time.

I've also had an idea swimming around: an option to only count actual thread bumps in MAX_RES (not "sage" posts). I think it would lead to making each bump more valuable so that people don't do so wastefully and unnecessarily.

>>48

That is an interesting idea, and one that deserves some more thought.

First thought: It would eliminate the concept of sageing as a protest entirely.

> It would eliminate the concept of sageing as a protest entirely.

Except that nobody knows what's going on back-end.

I like the idea though.

On second thought, the whole search idea was pretty poor...but could you implement saging in a way that's independent of any particular post element, and is instead assigned in the individual templates?

>>48-50
First of all, I don't believe it would make bumps more valuable in any way. People bump threads all the time with worthless replies since most don't even know what "sage" is or means or what it is good for. They will simply continue to do this, no matter whether the sage function is changed in this way.

Even at this stage, years after its introduction to a major western userbase, people are still clueless about the main basic functions of image- and discussionboards in the Futaba/0ch style. There are some signs of improvement, but they are rare.
I doubt people would be willing or eager to learn a new, different behaviour at this point in time.

The only real change is what >>50 points out (though I want to mention that even that point is mostly misunderstood: if people want to protest against a certain thread, they should post as many sage posts as it needs to get permasaged (although it's arguably counterproductive, considering the default prune behaviour of imgboards). If threads are still bumpable and trolls find that they have been flamed with a sage, they will just bump it once more). And I don't think that's enough to justify a pretty major function change.

>considering the default prune behaviour of imgboards

One of the parameters Kareha uses to determine pruning is MAX_POSTS, so even if you sage a thread under this new condition, you still add to the board's total postcount and speed up the process for pruning that thread, regardless of MAX_RES. The only flew is this assumes pruning is based on thread creation date, not popularity (because someone could easily bump a shitty thread and save it from deletion).

I also agree that enabling this functionality would further make threads vulnerable to intentional bumping by trolls. I was sorta envisioning it being used in a mature community where trolling is minimal and quickly weeded out by regulars.

Here's a new idea: how about trying this in reverse? Only "sage" posts are counted in MAX_RES, in which case saging can again be used either in protest or as a courtesy to others. The only problem is that people can then freely bump threads without consequence.

>>54
I really don't understand what the problem with the current system is. You must be confused. ┐('～`；)┌

>>55
I'm not complaining about the current system, just throwing around some new ideas for a change (instead of blindly following whatever new thing comes along on 2ch).

All right, a beta version with some new features is now installed for this board. It implements a couple of bug fixes, and navigational and 2ch-style improvements suggested in this thread. Try it out, and complain about stuff that doesn't work or doesn't make sense.

I also put in customizable capcodes now. You can define a string of arbitary HTML for the capcode, so you can put whatever kind of fagginess you want in there! Hooray! Try this out by posting with #test.

The good old test thread is still here: http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1099697376/

huh?

I was browsing through some old threads and now they're all gone. :(

The test thread seems to be broken too.

>>58
Fuck you for giving me <blink>

Please put alt tags in image refs, kthnx.

>>59-60

Details, please. Everything works for me.

Ah, there was an XHTML error in the cutesy capcode, and of Safari won't handle XHTML correctly and die on errors. Gah. Fixed.

>>64
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh? You are not the real >>64!!!

/-100 shows the first post two times.

The "Entire thread" link on the thread page is missing a "/" at the end.

http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1099697376/101-101
(First "Next 100" link) does not include >>1 in that thread

There's also some weird bug where the entire browser windowd content goes black, dunno what that is about...

>>66-67

Noted and fixed in development version.

>>69
The sage seems a bit off...

>>63
Nevermind, the issues seem to have resolved themselves within the hour of the new version being uploaded.

More stuff:

To more closely resemble the 2ch look, how about prefixing thread title headers in the main board page with a 【position:postcount】thingie?

And as suggested before, the navigation links on the bottom of individual thread pages should include "Previous 100" (ie, all posts before the first post in the URL) and "Next 100" (ie, all posts after the last post in the URL). Of course, this could get screwy if you're using reverse order and out-of-order posts in the URL, so I dunno how well it could be implemented.

The "First 100" link should also be removed from the bottom of individual thread pages, and there should be a link to to thread-list included below the reply box of each previewed thread on the front page.

Bonus:

Change "Del" links to widget buttons.

In order for the CSS selector not to take over the entire header, how about turning it into a drop-down menu? The same could be done with the Admin functions (appearing only after one correctly inputs the password), placing it on the right side of the board and thread title headers (this would also allow admins the convenience of deleting and permasaging threads from the front-page).

and would something like this work (given that all boards share the same root directory)?

>>>>sup/1129153864/1-100
>>>1129153864/1-100

P.S. When you mentioned serving dynamic pages in >>46, were you referring to individual thread pages? As I mentioned before, it'd be nice to make the front page as dynamic and flexible as thread pages when it comes to viewing options (via PATH_INFO).

Oh, and please bring back MAX_LINES.

>>71
forgot to add that turning the CSS selector and Admin functions into drop-down menus and moving them to the right side of board and thread title headers would remove that top bar entirely on the front page.

> To more closely resemble the 2ch look, how about prefixing thread title headers in the main board page with a 【position:postcount】thingie?

2channel does not do this either by default. It can make browsing a bit more convenient (and I suspect dedicated 2channel browsers to insert & read these in some kind of standardized way) but I don't think that's reason enough to impose it on users by default.

> Of course, this could get screwy if you're using reverse order and out-of-order posts in the URL, so I dunno how well it could be implemented.

Personally, I find the reverse order listing, as well as the random order listing, to be a bit silly & useless. The only useful bonus feature here seems to be the comma range seperator, but it seems even in that case there is not much benefit to it (saves 1-3 links in the average case that it is needed, which is rare to begin with).

> The "First 100" link should also be removed from the bottom of individual thread pages, and there should be a link to to thread-list included below the reply box of each previewed thread on the front page.

signed

> In order for the CSS selector not to take over the entire header, how about turning it into a drop-down menu?

This was proposed before (long time ago) and it is hereby also signed.

> and would something like this work (given that all boards share the same root directory)?

That's a tricky bit and I think it was decided against because it would be too much work to properly maintain such a function at the time when 4chan implemented it.

> 2channel does not do this either by default. It can make browsing a bit more convenient (and I suspect dedicated 2channel browsers to insert & read these in some kind of standardized way) but I don't think that's reason enough to impose it on users by default.

whoops, I misread "postcount" as "posticon". Nevermind!

>>74
The comma range separator is useful for anchoring a certain post range to the first post (ie, "1,-100"), but that's all I can really think of. Still, I appreciate such a degree of flexibility.

> To more closely resemble the 2ch look, how about prefixing thread title headers in the main board page with a 【position:postcount】thingie?

I find the "1. Thread title (1000)" format much more readable in the post list. And for the main titles, I don't see any value is putting the position in there. That serves no discernable purpose.

> And as suggested before, the navigation links on the bottom of individual thread pages should include "Previous 100" (ie, all posts before the first post in the URL) and "Next 100" (ie, all posts after the last post in the URL).

They already do, but only if there are enough posts in the thread for this to make sense. Or, try a short range like 23-27 to see it in action.

> The "First 100" link should also be removed from the bottom of individual thread pages, and there should be a link to to thread-list included below the reply box of each previewed thread on the front page.

I've been wondering about the justifications for which navigation links should go where. 2ch has it pretty much worked out, I'm sure, but I don't quite see why there should be a "First 100" at the top but not at the bottom.

> Change "Del" links to widget buttons.

Would be very ugly. Those buttons are big.

> In order for the CSS selector not to take over the entire header, how about turning it into a drop-down menu?

I was meaning to do that from the start, but there was some problem with gettting it right. I forget what exactly.

> The same could be done with the Admin functions (appearing only after one correctly inputs the password), placing it on the right side of the board and thread title headers (this would also allow admins the convenience of deleting and permasaging threads from the front-page).

Squeeks would prefer to have a separate script for admining. I'm not sure which is the best approach here.

> and would something like this work (given that all boards share the same root directory)?
> >>>>sup/1129153864/1-100
> >>>1129153864/1-100

Maybe, but I don't see the value in adding code for this, given that you can just paste the URL in there.

> P.S. When you mentioned serving dynamic pages in >>46, were you referring to individual thread pages? As I mentioned before, it'd be nice to make the front page as dynamic and flexible as thread pages when it comes to viewing options (via PATH_INFO).

The front page gets lots of hits. This would drive up CPU usage something fierce.

> Oh, and please bring back MAX_LINES.

I still don't think it serves any useful purpose.

>>70

?

> Personally, I find the reverse order listing, as well as the random order listing, to be a bit silly & useless.

Well, no, duh, that's the point. They're jokes.

> The only useful bonus feature here seems to be the comma range seperator, but it seems even in that case there is not much benefit to it (saves 1-3 links in the average case that it is needed, which is rare to begin with).

On the contrary, it's very useful when referring someone to a specific discussion in a thread where several discussions are going on, since you can make a link that only shows the relevant posts. Not just on the board but when linking to threads elsewhere.

>>n74,76

It's good for referencing replies, too.

The "always show the first post" behaviour is sort of confusing at first. It seems more intrusive than useful.

Argh, beaten and >>n isn't even implemented. orz

n is implemented, but not for >> yet.

Also, >>1 is, as it is, only added to URLs of the form xx-yy and lxx. 2ch doesn't add >>1 for single-reply URLs, and if you're using commas, I figure you can add >>1 yourself if you want it. I'm not sure if this is the best behaviour, but that's how it works at the moment.

> but I don't quite see why there should be a "First 100" at the top but not at the bottom.

Probably to avoid clutter and because of the assumption that if you arrive at the bottom of a page, you can do without the "First 100" link. "First 100" seems to be a navigational aid for beginners who are new to the thread, so it makes sense to only have it at the top.

Oh yeah, regarding the CSS selector: HTML dropdowns aren't styleable, and will look like shit. I'll look into using some other trickery for that, though.

> some other trickery

I smell JavaScript coming in about >>90-120

I'll sign that partition for a separate admin script and XHTML interface (one that includes the banning, board nuking, and spamlist-changing functions in Wakaba).

How about adding flexibility to the DELETE_FIRST option in config.pl, using booleans to define when to keep or remove a thread (including AND/OR/NOT arguments)?

Also, options for both automated permasaging and pruning by postcount, creation date/time, and board position (all configurable in config.pl of course).

Some other layout points:

• The Title field should go above the Name and Link fields in 2ch mode.

• 2ch's "new thread" post box is at the bottom of the main page. From every practical standpoint, the current solution in Kareha is a lot more convenient, but you may want to go over that just in case.

• Futaba now uses "..." instead of ">>>" to prefix repy blocks.

> The Title field should go above the Name and Link fields in 2ch mode.

Why should it?

> From every practical standpoint, the current solution in Kareha is a lot more convenient

It's more convenient if you want to start a new thread, but for those who don't it's one more form to have to scroll by.

> Futaba now uses "..." instead of ">>>" to prefix repy blocks.

Any idea why?

Also, I'd like to ask exactly how Kareha does automatically generates deletion passwords. I'm guessing it's similar if not identical to how it creates ID session codes with a user's IP.

>>86

>Why should it?

Because it's one of the two requirements for creating a new thread, and it's a lot more important to have a well-defined topic than to fill in your name.

>It's more convenient if you want to start a new thread, but for those who don't it's one more form to have to scroll by.

Good point.

>Any idea why?

I dunno. I guess it's just another one of Futaba's countless layout quirks.

> Also, I'd like to ask exactly how Kareha does automatically generates deletion passwords. I'm guessing it's similar if not identical to how it creates ID session codes with a user's IP.

Actually, no, the Javascript just strings some random numbers and letters together.

> Because it's one of the two requirements for creating a new thread, and it's a lot more important to have a well-defined topic than to fill in your name.

But the body text is even more important, and that goes at the bottom. So I dunno.

>It's more convenient if you want to start a new thread, but for those who don't it's one more form to have to scroll by.

Would it maybe make sense to make a separate thread creation page?

> Would it maybe make sense to make a separate thread creation page?

Considering that the ratio of users who start new threads to those who don't is pretty small on most message boards, I think it does.
A seperate page could also be used to put a more visible disclaimer/set of rules, as a seperate page with a different layout is likely to generate more attention from the user. Stuff that can be put there also wouldn't clutter up the frontpage.
I don't think this is an urgent matter, though.

Put the Entire thread link on the top of the thread, not the bottom.

This my just be me, but I'd like a link to the entire thread in karaha at the top of threads.

>>91 Ohshi-, time paradox!

> Put the Entire thread link on the top of the thread, not the bottom.

Well, since the current update has removed almost all links to entire threads, I won't do THAT, but I guess a Last 50 link could be snuck in somewhere... Maybe the thread title should be an l50 link?

Also, I forgot to mention: fusianasan works now! Put it in as your name to test it!

>>89

>But the body text is even more important, and that goes at the bottom. So I dunno.

Yeah, I considered this too. I'm mainly suggesting for the sake of convention.

We definitely don't need a separate page for creating new threads (I get bad memories of Shiichan), mainly because it's inconvenient and requires a whole other page for something that really shouldn't. The fact that it'd be at the bottom of the board page already detracts bad posters with itchy trigger fingers. I think most of us have an "End" key on our keyboards, so we don't really have to scroll all the way down anyway. :) Really, the only issue I have with moving the post box to the bottom is that it ruins my personal visualization of new threads falling on top of the "stack of threads" and replies emerging from below the "stack of replies".

In reference to >>90, there's something I see on every 2ch board that is a lot less prevalent in Western counterparts (barring certain 4-ch boards): a rules/disclaimer block at the top, above the thread-list, with links to a newbie guide, site FAQ, and the like. Yes, it may be an annoyance to veterans, but being at the very top means it's most visible to newbies. That way, we don't get a constant influx of people wondering whether or not they need to fill in the Name and Link fields and what the hell sage and tripcodes are.

>>96
forgot to mention that maybe a parameter could be included in config.pl to define an XHTML file for the disclaimer/rules block. It could be used both in 2ch and Futaba (right under the posting area) modes.

Also, wouldn't making capcodes even more prevalent be considered A Bad Thing®? If anything, the role of capcodes should be minimized or altogether eradicated, in favor of ninja moderation.

Another question: would FUDGE_BLOCKQUOTES be considered deprecated by now, or are there still CSS styles out there that require it?

I've returned from the world of the dead, with old forgotten...suggestions! http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1109447905/l50

>-Scaleable administration (ie, [variable permissions for different passwords])
>-Forcenick and/or force anon for [specified IPs]

>>98

Well, that's what I've said from the start, but people keep requesting them.

FUDGE_BLOCKQUOTES is used by the Futaba style, and I guess I just want to keep it there to make it compatible with Futallaby-style CSS files.