The problem reported in >>143 is still present.

It's also more markup when even the existing one isn't working as well as it should.

So, as Xee is almost done, and I'm mostly waiting for external contributions, I decided it was time to start working on the Legendary Next Update for Kareha and Wakaba.

Only problem is, it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what needs to be done. Most of it is mentioned SOMEWHERE on the board, though. So this is your chance to pipe up with your pet feature request, or if you're feeling really helpful, to dig out some old posts that mention things that need fixing.

Hop to it!

> but I don't quite see why there should be a "First 100" at the top but not at the bottom.

Probably to avoid clutter and because of the assumption that if you arrive at the bottom of a page, you can do without the "First 100" link. "First 100" seems to be a navigational aid for beginners who are new to the thread, so it makes sense to only have it at the top.

>>255
By replacing it with AN EVEN DUMBER PUN!

Ah, there was an XHTML error in the cutesy capcode, and of Safari won't handle XHTML correctly and die on errors. Gah. Fixed.

This my just be me, but I'd like a link to the entire thread in karaha at the top of threads.

I fixed the Javascript a bit, and uploaded it for these boards. Try shift-reloading to get the new code, and see if cookies work better now that I'm not using cargo-cult code.

Also, I'd like to ask exactly how Kareha does automatically generates deletion passwords. I'm guessing it's similar if not identical to how it creates ID session codes with a user's IP.

I notice some weirdness with the CSS changes sometimes. For example, the first post on a -100 page will sometimes have the first character of the post enlarged. >>2 looks something like
\
/>2 until it is mouse-overed or you change the CSS, but then it goes back to large again on refresh. Also can happen with lowercase letters. Some of the field labels also change size from refreshing in a certain CSS versus just switching to it.

>It's all a design & layout question. I'd like to have the interface reduced to what is absolutely neccessary, esp. since I do not think many people really want to even bother or bother very often with the whole markup question.

Why have a name field or link field? For the majority of posts they are not used, or only used for sage. As stated earlier, they are not even needed for the bare minimum of usage. You want to prove it is you posting? Use a gpg signature or something and a third-party extension, it is just fluff that is not needed at all!

I'm all for having a system that is easy to modify to the end-user's wants and needs. However, there are going to be plenty of users that are not hardcore enough to make or use such options. Therefore, the normal functionality should be pretty usable.

People seem to pop-up whenever something that would change the interface to shout it down. They seem to fear any change and normally give no reason other than it would clutter things up or some nonsense. Does the CSS selector -really- get in your way? It is probably a whole ten pixels! Is having the More options thing really ruining your experience, or are you just against it on some principle? Personally, I would move it below the comment text-area or something, as now the tab amounts between the main fields has changed.

> but I don't quite see why there should be a "First 100" at the top but not at the bottom.

Probably to avoid clutter and because of the assumption that if you arrive at the bottom of a page, you can do without the "First 100" link. "First 100" seems to be a navigational aid for beginners who are new to the thread, so it makes sense to only have it at the top.

I want a 1001th post! :(

How about appending an estimated (at the time of thread creation) time of pruning to the first post's header, if pruning-by-age is enabled?

>>86

>Why should it?

Because it's one of the two requirements for creating a new thread, and it's a lot more important to have a well-defined topic than to fill in your name.

>It's more convenient if you want to start a new thread, but for those who don't it's one more form to have to scroll by.

Good point.

>Any idea why?

I dunno. I guess it's just another one of Futaba's countless layout quirks.

> 2channel does not do this either by default. It can make browsing a bit more convenient (and I suspect dedicated 2channel browsers to insert & read these in some kind of standardized way) but I don't think that's reason enough to impose it on users by default.

whoops, I misread "postcount" as "posticon". Nevermind!

>>161

>3) was about a string to trigger ID:Heaven, not a constant for the Heaven part (which is already configurable)

That's what I was referring to also in >>154 (S_NOID being the theoretical trigger string for ID:Heaven).

Concerning localization: there are certain compromises with input triggers that must be made in order to maintain interoperability with Japanese users coming from 2ch/Futaba. They're not going to care about a system where "sage" and "fusianasan" (in Roman too I'm guessing, can someone confirm this?) don't work in their respective fields. In effect, 2ch set a standard of usability that we need to follow if we want to build a bridge between both communities.

On the flipside, I think there should also be a secondary set of trigger strings that would be more coherent to Western users and universal to all Western boards. Making them configurable from site to site is really dumb, because it would create an unthinkable usability mess. With Shiichan's death, Kareha stands unrivaled, and setting these strings in stone would ingrain them in the culture like "sage" and "fusianasan" have been in Japan. Thinking very optimistically, if a Western BBS site should grow into something large enough for 2channers to strongly take notice of, they would pick up on these triggers and possibly make their own concessions to implement them in 0ch.

What they should be is yet to be determined. Unfortunately, they'll probably have to be pretty dull in comparison to the witty botanical references and word puns in 2ch and Futaba.

>>163

>I don't think so, not in these cases. What's the alternative? Having a different field for fusianasan, a new checkbox for sage, etc.? That's just cluttering up the interface.

Then why not simply boil it all down to the comment field, with trigger strings for inputting the name, e-mail, sage, ID:Heaven, and fusianasan? You can get a lot more minimal with the current interface.

>Huh?

He meant saging a thread just because a part of the actual e-mail address contains the word "sage."

Suggestion / Request

Making "More options..." an option in the configs.

Seems sensible, when you already have the ability to turn off WakabaMark as a board admin. Also, it will make me stop whining (a bit).

That would be a bother too.

You could add entire thread links to either the "num" or "posts" column in subback.

> Better to have a tick-box and explain to people why it is useful. Or an option for it.

Yes, an option. Because I think a tickbox is horrible.

This is a widely used system. There is a very low learning curve here. sage = does not bump thread when replying, that's all there is to know. People can then figure out why it is useful on their own.

And personally, I think sageing should be encouraged more (since the perceptions on it have been pretty much ruined by 4chan). So it helps that it stays in the E-Mail/Link field instead of being purged from the tickbox each time like Shiichan does (interestingly, 4chan's Futallaby does also purge "sage" if written in all minor letters).

Recapping, here are the things I'd like to see in the final release:

• better configuration of date and time (with optional timezone offsets), parsing certain characters for individual elements (ie, yyyy/MM/dd(D) hh:mm:ss -5:00:00) and also accepting numerical inputs for fixed dates and times (Eternal September)
• config.pl parameter to permasage after a certain thread filesize/total number of characters has been reached
• change the no-ID-on-email option to no-ID-on-sage
• no EMAIL_ID parameter (most if not everyone uses "Heaven" anyway, and if they really want to change it they can easily find the string in kareha.pl)

Some nitpicky template adjustments to mode_message in order to more closely resemble 0ch (see http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~zerotest/jikken and http://0ch.mine.nu/jikken):

• multi-page links (1-, 101-, 201-, etc) at the top of subpages
• red, bold thread filesize indicator near the bottom of subpages
• "read all later posts" link just below the filesize indicator
• non-bolded post numbers
• colons before dates
• colons before names (thread subpages only)
• colons after thread position number in main page thread list
• smaller and (at least for Pseud0ch) black and bolded title in "Create new thread" box

If you want to have a look at what the code actually does to dig out flaws, here is the current version:

sub sanitize_html($%)
{
	my ($html,%tags)=@_;
	my (@stack,$clean);
	my $entity_re=qr/&(?!\#[0-9]+;|\#x[0-9a-fA-F]+;|amp;)/;

	while($html=~/(?:([^<]+)|<([^<>]*)>?)/g)
	{
		my ($text,$tag)=($1,$2);

		if($text)
		{
			$text=~s/$entity_re/&amp;/g;
			$text=~s/>/&gt;/g;
			$clean.=$text;
		}
		else
		{
			if($tag=~m!^\s*(/?)\s*([a-z0-9_:\-\.]+)(?:\s+(.*?)|)\s*(/?)\s*$!si)
			{
				my ($closing,$name,$args,$implicit)=($1,lc($2),$3,$4);

				if($tags{$name})
				{
					if($closing)
					{
						if(grep { $_ eq $name } @stack)
						{
							my $entry;

							do {
								$entry=pop @stack;
								$clean.="</$entry>";
							} until $entry eq $name;
						}
					}
					else
					{
						my %args;

						$args=~s/\s/ /sg;

						while($args=~/([a-z0-9_:\-\.]+)(?:\s*=\s*(?:'([^']*?)'|"([^"]*?)"|['"]?([^'" ]*))|)/gi)
						{
							my ($arg,$value)=(lc($1),defined($2)?$2:defined($3)?$3:$4);
							$value=$arg unless defined($value);

							my $type=$tags{$name}{args}{$arg};

							if($type)
							{
								my $passes=1;

								if($type=~/url/i) { $passes=0 unless $value=~/(?:^$protocol_re:|^[^:]+$)/ }
								if($type=~/number/i) { $passes=0 unless $value=~/^[0-9]+$/  }

								if($passes)
								{
									$value=~s/$entity_re/&amp;/g;

									if($value=~/"/) { $value="'$value'" }
									else { $value="\"$value\"" }

									$args{$arg}=$value;
								}
							}
						}

						my $cleanargs=join " ",map { "$_=$args{$_}" } keys %args;

						$implicit="/" if($tags{$name}{empty});

						push @stack,$name unless $implicit;

						$clean.="<$name";
						$clean.=" $cleanargs" if $cleanargs;
						$clean.=" $implicit" if $implicit;
						$clean.=">";
					}
				}
			}
		}
	}

	my $entry;
	while($entry=pop @stack) { $clean.="</$entry>" }

	return $clean;
}

>>> In the end, people actually enjoy the 0ch quirkiness. I know I do. I know about designing good interfaces, but there's something fun about an interface that is a little bit quirky, as long as it doesn't get in your way, and these things don't.

It does get in your way though, I enumerated cases where this is the case (albeit edge cases).

>>>Then just make one post with your name/trip and one with fusianasan and let your ID show up in both.

fusiansan is just intended for rare or special cases anyway, as is the whole subject of identification on anonymous message boards.

You still end up with no way to link the fusianasan post with the name/trip one without IDs enabled (unless the ID method is known and no secret data is used).

>>>It's rarely needed anyway. Also, these things are pretty easy to remember. "sage" and "fusianasan" is all there is, really.

You spelled it fusiansan once.

Also, how is Kahera unrivaled when there are still large sites that are not running it? Shiichan is still on world4ch, Thorn on parts of wakachan for example.

http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1127713568/l50 is also semi-relevant

"page top" is better imho

So, as Xee is almost done, and I'm mostly waiting for external contributions, I decided it was time to start working on the Legendary Next Update for Kareha and Wakaba.

Only problem is, it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what needs to be done. Most of it is mentioned SOMEWHERE on the board, though. So this is your chance to pipe up with your pet feature request, or if you're feeling really helpful, to dig out some old posts that mention things that need fixing.

Hop to it!

>>69
The sage seems a bit off...

>>46
Well, I haven't checked to see exactly where the ban functionality exists in Kareha, but my idea is something along the lines of: (1) encrypting the offender's IP, (2) writing it to a bans.txt list, and (3) writing a parameter next to the IP specifying the time when the ban should be lifted. Of course, you also need underlying code to check bans.txt every time a user tries to post or reply, and also to remove a ban entry at its specified time.

> Red, bold thread filesizes displayed near the bottom of subpages?

I support this, especially if thread-closing by filesize should be implemented.