The Legendary Next Update (365)

162 Name:   2005-10-19 16:45 ID:gBva8ggI [Del]

Well, there are some issues to consider here:

  • Hardly anybody needs to ever use fusianasan. It's a gimmick. Design decisions should not be made around it.
  • The strings may be strange, and combining fields isn't the best design possible, but this is a 0ch clone, after all. If I were designing something from scratch, I'd do things differently, but as it is, people are expecting 0ch behaviour, and it would confuse them if the script worked like 0ch in some ways but not others.
  • I might consider adding additional strings that trigger sage and fusianasan, but I'm not sure what they should be.

In the end, people actually enjoy the 0ch quirkiness. I know I do. I know about designing good interfaces, but there's something fun about an interface that is a little bit quirky, as long as it doesn't get in your way, and these things don't.

65 Name: 61 2005-10-17 05:14 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>64
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh? You are not the real >>64!!!

313 Name: !WAHa.06x36 : 2005-10-24 18:41 ID:Heaven [Del]

Well, I don't want to have to read posts without highlighting. It's annoying. Just for that, I don't want leave it off.

On another topic, a vote: I could make the secure tripcodes and other parts of the script that use the SECRET more secure by some small changes, but this would make secure trips change when you install the new version.

Good idea, y/n?

284 Name: Anonymous : 2005-10-23 18:27 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>279
Every mode auto-links URLs and >> references, or at least they should (HTML mode doesn't for some reason).

>>281
Well the description is outdated, then. :P

In any case, inserting an ASCII carriage return in HTML mode still renders as a line break. Bug or feature?

15 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-13 06:01 ID:Heaven [Del]

> Pruning set to furthest-back instead of oldest.

I don't like this one. You just have to continually age a topic (until it hits the permasage treshold) in order for it so survive a long time. Normal users might have good reason to ignore simply it, though...

> Size limit instead of post number limit, maybe?

Sounds good.

> I was thinking of setting the default behaviour to never permasage or close threads.

I guess I don't have a strong opinion on this one. As long as the values will be customizable, I don't really care, I suppose.
Also: I just noticed that "¦" in tripcodes will work correctly but turn into "�U" through the cookie on /soc/ but not on the sandbox.

31 Name: !nFxirOdZ2I 2005-10-14 00:57 ID:Heaven [Del]

testing #`abcdef¦

83 Name:   2005-10-17 12:09 ID:Heaven [Del]

Oh yeah, regarding the CSS selector: HTML dropdowns aren't styleable, and will look like shit. I'll look into using some other trickery for that, though.

146 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-19 07:04 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>145

>does that mean you approve of removing the style selector on subpages?

I was referring to the entire board, but as you later explained, it seems it can never be removed completely. Though removing it from subpages wouldn't be a bad idea I guess.

>Kareha has no "No File" check in the first place

That's what I thought, but then why is it in the Reply pages?

Other: Have you considered multi-page links with intervals of 100 posts at the top of subpages (ie, 1-, 101-, 201-)? Red, bold thread filesizes displayed near the bottom of subpages?

Something else to consider: separating the board description/rules template from the board- or site-wide announcements. Check out http://0ch.mine.nu/test/read.cgi/jikken/1120050851 to see what I mean.

326 Name: !WAHa.06x36 : 2005-10-26 19:08 ID:SjmelPTB [Del]

> Wait, why should l50 links be indexed/cached?

Because the only way for the search engine to find the old threads is to go through the l50 links. I'm taking the advice of >>322 though.

> The CSS in the All threads page is unsightly. Is there a way to properly wrap the outer color border(s) around the table of threads?

You need to explain what you're talking about before I can do anything about that. What style, and what does "wrap the outer color border(s) around" mean?

> I still say that the "Navigation: " text is extraneous when people can clearly see what the links do. Also still partitioning for 0ch-style error pages (with displayed user host and all).

It's there because freefloating unlabelled links look weird.

> Now that we do have filesize indicators in the backlog page of mode_message, do you still find it useless to have the red bold filesizes near the bottom of thread subpages?

They're there, but only if you enable pruning by size.

> Does mode_message now work in PAGE_GENERATION => 'paged'?

No. I'm too lazy to figure what that's supposed to do, and I don't think anybody actually wants to use that in the first place.

> Idea: forced anonymous/sage/ID/fusianasan by IP/thread/board/whole site (some of these combinations already exist, I know)?

There's no database to keep IP data in, and I'd prefer to keep the script completely agnostic to IP addresses.

> Finally, I imagine that the permasage/close/delete functions in kareha.pl will be easily interchangeable among the conditions in post_stuff(). Can you confirm this?

No, because I don't know what you mean.

230 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-21 18:43 ID:Heaven [Del]

I think it'd be a better idea to have some kind of load-balancing/distributed server cluster approach, like what dmpk2k was working on for Wakaba.

250 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-22 12:58 ID:tsGarR30 [Del]

>>249 Then the default should be no markup.

219 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-21 15:25 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>216
I remember at least one or two boards on 2ch that used it, though I can't remember which (moon language and such, you see).

I apologize for the dumb question I made at the end of >>218. I forgot that Kareha permasages (not closes) a thread after the limit is exceeded, so there's no need for a hypothetical 1001th post anyway! orz

238 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-21 23:15 ID:0dCD+kFU [Del]

>Most admins probably don't get point of the secret string anyway, and asking them to put in several is just too annoying. In retrospect, I'd like to add a second layer of hashing to these, but that'd mean breaking secure trips AGAIN.

You could take the route that MrVB (I think?) did and generate the strings on first run? openssl, /dev/random, perl's random as last resort. In almost every case you are going to get a better random string than most people will supply, and if they want to change it they can. Or only have them generated if they are not supplied.

Honestly, when people care so much about anonymity they can put up with the changes required to ensure it.

255 Name:   2005-10-22 13:19 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>254

You'd be destroying the DUMB PUN!

239 Name:   2005-10-22 06:31 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>236

mode_image copies the Futaba/Futallaby HTML style and uses the same CSS, so yeah, it should be, and no, it won't be.

>>238

This would need writing to yet another file, and it also makes it less obvious how to get the same secret on several boards.

213 Name:   2005-10-21 14:44 ID:Heaven [Del]

> More information on the all threads page, date of the last post? file size?

That might be somewhat useful, I suppose. I'll have a look at it.

> A quote button that puts >>n and puts the post prefixed by > in the reply box

There's already a way to put in >>n. However, quoting an entire post is seldom something you want to do anyway, so I don't think that's worth cluttering up the page with a million buttons for.

> Different secret strings for different functions (e.g. one for ID generation and one for secure tripcodes)

Most admins probably don't get point of the secret string anyway, and asking them to put in several is just too annoying. In retrospect, I'd like to add a second layer of hashing to these, but that'd mean breaking secure trips AGAIN.

> A trigger for turning wakabamark off and one for forcing a monospace font

I've been trying to work out a more elegant solution for this.

104 Name: 103 2005-10-17 15:05 ID:Heaven [Del]

I meant Remote host adress instead of IP.

durr hurr

323 Name: Anonymous : 2005-10-26 18:16 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>321
Wait, why should l50 links be indexed/cached? IMO the only links that should be on Google at all are main pages and "entire thread" links.

Some final points (I hope) before the whole thing is wrapped up:

  • The CSS in the All threads page is unsightly. Is there a way to properly wrap the outer color border(s) around the table of threads?
  • I still say that the "Navigation: " text is extraneous when people can clearly see what the links do. Also still partitioning for 0ch-style error pages (with displayed user host and all).
  • Now that we do have filesize indicators in the backlog page of mode_message, do you still find it useless to have the red bold filesizes near the bottom of thread subpages?
  • Does mode_message now work in PAGE_GENERATION => 'paged'?
  • Idea: forced anonymous/sage/ID/fusianasan by IP/thread/board/whole site (some of these combinations already exist, I know)?
  • Finally, I imagine that the permasage/close/delete functions in kareha.pl will be easily interchangeable among the conditions in post_stuff(). Can you confirm this?

115 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-18 03:20 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>108
I don't think that restricting specific users' posting priviliges is useful in any way except restricting them from posting.

>>108,113
"fusianasan" is for when a user wants to prove that he is posting from a certain place (like a school, a company's network or a military base).

>>112
A keyboard shortcut for "reply" in Kareha or "submit" in Wakaba would be nice to have.

297 Name: Anonymous : 2005-10-23 20:52 ID:Heaven [Del]

How about appending an estimated (at the time of thread creation) time of pruning to the first post's header, if pruning-by-age is enabled?

210 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-21 14:23 ID:Heaven [Del]

A trigger for turning wakabamark off and one for forcing a monospace font

339 Name: !WAHa.06x36 : 2005-10-27 05:53 ID:Heaven [Del]

> I'd like to have the interface reduced to what is absolutely neccessary

That's why there is a "More options..." link, instead of putting the controls there on every single thread everywhere.

308 Name: Anonymous : 2005-10-24 15:37 ID:hjzD4Li4 [Del]

Why not make None or Text Art the default? That way you don't surprise people.

Also, can you make >> links into anchors('#') when you're on the reply/entire thread page, especially in Wakaba? Currently when you click the link it just reloads the page with a different highlight, which is not all that helpful.

219 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-21 15:25 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>216
I remember at least one or two boards on 2ch that used it, though I can't remember which (moon language and such, you see).

I apologize for the dumb question I made at the end of >>218. I forgot that Kareha permasages (not closes) a thread after the limit is exceeded, so there's no need for a hypothetical 1001th post anyway! orz

152 Name: anon!21anon4H3U 2005-10-19 10:35 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>151 It's all public domain, I believe.

69 Name:   2005-10-17 07:26 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>66-67

Noted and fixed in development version.

167 Name:   2005-10-19 18:55 ID:gBva8ggI [Del]

Oh:

> Getting back to inconsequential nitpicking: I find the "___ image replies omitted" phrase to be a bit redundant, and for one it confuses me as to whether or not those image replies are separate from text-only replies. How about simply calling it "images"?

Yes, that's a great idea, which is why I've always done just that. You're thinking of 4chan.

208 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-21 13:46 ID:cRmds2wO [Del]

Recapping, here are the things I'd like to see in the final release:

  • better configuration of date and time (with optional timezone offsets), parsing certain characters for individual elements (ie, yyyy/MM/dd(D) hh:mm:ss -5:00:00) and also accepting numerical inputs for fixed dates and times (Eternal September)
  • config.pl parameter to permasage after a certain thread filesize/total number of characters has been reached
  • change the no-ID-on-email option to no-ID-on-sage
  • no EMAIL_ID parameter (most if not everyone uses "Heaven" anyway, and if they really want to change it they can easily find the string in kareha.pl)

Some nitpicky template adjustments to mode_message in order to more closely resemble 0ch (see http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~zerotest/jikken and http://0ch.mine.nu/jikken):

  • multi-page links (1-, 101-, 201-, etc) at the top of subpages
  • red, bold thread filesize indicator near the bottom of subpages
  • "read all later posts" link just below the filesize indicator
  • non-bolded post numbers
  • colons before dates
  • colons before names (thread subpages only)
  • colons after thread position number in main page thread list
  • smaller and (at least for Pseud0ch) black and bolded title in "Create new thread" box

352 Name: Anonymous : 2005-10-28 06:34 ID:Heaven [Del]

At least i got 350

53 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-16 01:46 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>48-50
First of all, I don't believe it would make bumps more valuable in any way. People bump threads all the time with worthless replies since most don't even know what "sage" is or means or what it is good for. They will simply continue to do this, no matter whether the sage function is changed in this way.

Even at this stage, years after its introduction to a major western userbase, people are still clueless about the main basic functions of image- and discussionboards in the Futaba/0ch style. There are some signs of improvement, but they are rare.
I doubt people would be willing or eager to learn a new, different behaviour at this point in time.

The only real change is what >>50 points out (though I want to mention that even that point is mostly misunderstood: if people want to protest against a certain thread, they should post as many sage posts as it needs to get permasaged (although it's arguably counterproductive, considering the default prune behaviour of imgboards). If threads are still bumpable and trolls find that they have been flamed with a sage, they will just bump it once more). And I don't think that's enough to justify a pretty major function change.

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