About rel=nofollow: What links should have it? Obviously not the "entire thread" link, but the l50 links in the thread list sort of need it, otherwise the search engine will never find them in the first place. But that means the l50 links will end up in the index.

>>209

>> More information on the all threads page, date of the last post? file size?

Well, I had already proposed the filesize indicator in >>208, but optimally I would actually prefer that subback resemble the one in 0ch (ie, same as the main page thread list, but without CSS).

And single-post links don't include the thread's first post anyway, so there's no need for >>n. Quoting an entire post is not wise either.

>>211

>Isn't this essentially the same as saying "Please don't talk so much?"

In a sense, yes. Just like the postcount limit could be interpreted as "Please don't talk so long".

>what

main page -- 161 Name：◆WAHa.06x36：2005/10/21(Fri) 14:44 ID:Heaven
subpage -- 4 ：◆WAHa.06x36：2005/10/21 14:44 ID:Heaven

Question: does Kareha have a 1001th post message like "Name: 1001:Over 1000 Thread" for when a thread exceeds its postcount limit?

Well, both >>30 and >>31 didn't change the ¦ into ?U so I am out of ideas what happened...

>>161

>3) was about a string to trigger ID:Heaven, not a constant for the Heaven part (which is already configurable)

That's what I was referring to also in >>154 (S_NOID being the theoretical trigger string for ID:Heaven).

Concerning localization: there are certain compromises with input triggers that must be made in order to maintain interoperability with Japanese users coming from 2ch/Futaba. They're not going to care about a system where "sage" and "fusianasan" (in Roman too I'm guessing, can someone confirm this?) don't work in their respective fields. In effect, 2ch set a standard of usability that we need to follow if we want to build a bridge between both communities.

On the flipside, I think there should also be a secondary set of trigger strings that would be more coherent to Western users and universal to all Western boards. Making them configurable from site to site is really dumb, because it would create an unthinkable usability mess. With Shiichan's death, Kareha stands unrivaled, and setting these strings in stone would ingrain them in the culture like "sage" and "fusianasan" have been in Japan. Thinking very optimistically, if a Western BBS site should grow into something large enough for 2channers to strongly take notice of, they would pick up on these triggers and possibly make their own concessions to implement them in 0ch.

What they should be is yet to be determined. Unfortunately, they'll probably have to be pretty dull in comparison to the witty botanical references and word puns in 2ch and Futaba.

>>163

>I don't think so, not in these cases. What's the alternative? Having a different field for fusianasan, a new checkbox for sage, etc.? That's just cluttering up the interface.

Then why not simply boil it all down to the comment field, with trigger strings for inputting the name, e-mail, sage, ID:Heaven, and fusianasan? You can get a lot more minimal with the current interface.

>Huh?

He meant saging a thread just because a part of the actual e-mail address contains the word "sage."

> some other trickery

I smell JavaScript coming in about >>90-120

Oh, and the navigation bar on the error page should probably look like the one on the thread page.

>>98

Well, that's what I've said from the start, but people keep requesting them.

FUDGE_BLOCKQUOTES is used by the Futaba style, and I guess I just want to keep it there to make it compatible with Futallaby-style CSS files.

>considering the default prune behaviour of imgboards

One of the parameters Kareha uses to determine pruning is MAX_POSTS, so even if you sage a thread under this new condition, you still add to the board's total postcount and speed up the process for pruning that thread, regardless of MAX_RES. The only flew is this assumes pruning is based on thread creation date, not popularity (because someone could easily bump a shitty thread and save it from deletion).

I also agree that enabling this functionality would further make threads vulnerable to intentional bumping by trolls. I was sorta envisioning it being used in a mature community where trolling is minimal and quickly weeded out by regulars.

Here's a new idea: how about trying this in reverse? Only "sage" posts are counted in MAX_RES, in which case saging can again be used either in protest or as a courtesy to others. The only problem is that people can then freely bump threads without consequence.

What does "fusianasan" mean?

>>189

>The effect would be miniscule in comparison to the huge increase in bandwidth that would result from sending the entire static thread pages.

How about a config.pl parameter to split up thread subpages into X posts per page? The navigation links already use 100 posts per page for practically everything except "Last 50 posts".

Hmm, I just remembered: >> links would not work at all with static pages. Not good.

>Why? Even if 0ch or Futaba implemented secure tripcodes, you wouldn't get the same secure tripcode there as on another board. That's the nature of the security.

Right, I guess it was dumb to mention 0ch/Futaba in the first place. The point is, as you said yourself, tripcodes are a gimmick, and if someone wants to maintain a persistent identity across multiple boards and sites (ie, everyone here with a tripcode), they have no choice but to use ordinary tripcodes. Secure tripcodes are useless because they limit your identity to a single board, supposing each board/site's cipher key is different -- which it should be, since that's the point of having a secure tripcode in the first place. No one should be so paranoid about a tripcode that they'd need to have a different one per board/site.

>Not without doing a lot of changes throughout the code, and not without breaking current installations.

Shouldn't we sacrifice some backwards compatibility for a more robust and scalable design? It might even be possible to provide an upgrade.pl for old threads.

>>193

>You could only trigger the functions in a specific format, say...

That's a cool idea, though for now it would have to be left alone if we want to keep Kareha compatible with 2ch/Futaba conventions.

>>195
Exactly. The methods and the effects of saging a thread are separate subjects.

P.S. I recently discovered "rXX-XX" for threads in /soc/. How exactly does this work? From the sound of it, it's supposed to randomize the post order, but when I hit refresh I get the same order.

>>157
So the functions need to be hardcoded to a post element one way or another? If I wanted to, let's say, create a template for gazo-box or Shiichan (both use checkboxes for sage), I'd need to slightly modify kareha.pl to check that new checkbox input instead of the Link string input?

An interesting limitation. Thanks for explaining.

About permasaging/deleting after a certain thread filesize is reached: would this be the same as a limit on the total number of characters in a thread? Or would we also include WakabaMark formatting, hyperlinks (including navigation), name/date/title headers, reply boxes, and non-Unicode characters in the formula?

>>158
Chances are that most if not all major/fundamental changes made to Kareha's core scripts will clash with the philosophy of most people here (including WAHa), and they won't care for them anyway. There really aren't all that many big-bang end-user features left to be implemented in Kareha before it loses its minimalist charm.

P.S. Reminder for >>85

ugh "More options..."

too much clickable elements! and it doesn't even do anything (Firefox 1.0.7 here)!

out! out!

> Also: I just noticed that "¦" in tripcodes will work correctly but turn into "�U" through the cookie on /soc/ but not on the sandbox.

This might have been worded a bit akwardly. What I meant was: Tricodes work fine with ¦ on both the sandbox and /soc/&/sup/, although the latter boards will strangely turn the ¦ into a U? after the reply button was hit.

> It would eliminate the concept of sageing as a protest entirely.

Except that nobody knows what's going on back-end.

I like the idea though.

Maybe. I just picked something at random.

sup

> Why not make None or Text Art the default?

Because >>309. I don't want to implement half of WakabaMark for the None mode, and without it you don't get stuff like quote highlighting.

> Also, can you make >> links into anchors('#') when you're on the reply/entire thread page, especially in Wakaba?

Er, that is exactly how Wakaba works right now? And Kareha can't change the contents of posts dynamically, so it'll never do it.

Also, wouldn't making capcodes even more prevalent be considered A Bad Thing®? If anything, the role of capcodes should be minimized or altogether eradicated, in favor of ninja moderation.

Another question: would FUDGE_BLOCKQUOTES be considered deprecated by now, or are there still CSS styles out there that require it?

>>46
Well, I haven't checked to see exactly where the ban functionality exists in Kareha, but my idea is something along the lines of: (1) encrypting the offender's IP, (2) writing it to a bans.txt list, and (3) writing a parameter next to the IP specifying the time when the ban should be lifted. Of course, you also need underlying code to check bans.txt every time a user tries to post or reply, and also to remove a ban entry at its specified time.

I'm not sure I want to make a ban system. I'd rather just make it easy to interface with a simple banning script that does whatever's needed for the server it's running on.

> 3) A specific string for ID:Heaven instead of anything in the email field

Isn't that already an option in the config?

> 5) Seperation of sage et al from the email field to something else...

Strong oppose! I am of the (strong! lol) opinion that the current situation is the one working the best and also that it is widely accepted on almost all similiar board scripts (save for Shiichan and one obscure Japanese discussion board script that I once stumbled upon).

Previous discussion of this can be found here:
http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1102984488/

So, as Xee is almost done, and I'm mostly waiting for external contributions, I decided it was time to start working on the Legendary Next Update for Kareha and Wakaba.

Only problem is, it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what needs to be done. Most of it is mentioned SOMEWHERE on the board, though. So this is your chance to pipe up with your pet feature request, or if you're feeling really helpful, to dig out some old posts that mention things that need fixing.

Hop to it!

sup

> Would it maybe make sense to make a separate thread creation page?

Considering that the ratio of users who start new threads to those who don't is pretty small on most message boards, I think it does.
A seperate page could also be used to put a more visible disclaimer/set of rules, as a seperate page with a different layout is likely to generate more attention from the user. Stuff that can be put there also wouldn't clutter up the frontpage.
I don't think this is an urgent matter, though.

>>48-50
First of all, I don't believe it would make bumps more valuable in any way. People bump threads all the time with worthless replies since most don't even know what "sage" is or means or what it is good for. They will simply continue to do this, no matter whether the sage function is changed in this way.

Even at this stage, years after its introduction to a major western userbase, people are still clueless about the main basic functions of image- and discussionboards in the Futaba/0ch style. There are some signs of improvement, but they are rare.
I doubt people would be willing or eager to learn a new, different behaviour at this point in time.

The only real change is what >>50 points out (though I want to mention that even that point is mostly misunderstood: if people want to protest against a certain thread, they should post as many sage posts as it needs to get permasaged (although it's arguably counterproductive, considering the default prune behaviour of imgboards). If threads are still bumpable and trolls find that they have been flamed with a sage, they will just bump it once more). And I don't think that's enough to justify a pretty major function change.

Random post: The test thread could use some linking in the notes at the bottom (what's the common nomenclature for that one?).

>>189

>The effect would be miniscule in comparison to the huge increase in bandwidth that would result from sending the entire static thread pages.

How about a config.pl parameter to split up thread subpages into X posts per page? The navigation links already use 100 posts per page for practically everything except "Last 50 posts".

Hmm, I just remembered: >> links would not work at all with static pages. Not good.

>Why? Even if 0ch or Futaba implemented secure tripcodes, you wouldn't get the same secure tripcode there as on another board. That's the nature of the security.

Right, I guess it was dumb to mention 0ch/Futaba in the first place. The point is, as you said yourself, tripcodes are a gimmick, and if someone wants to maintain a persistent identity across multiple boards and sites (ie, everyone here with a tripcode), they have no choice but to use ordinary tripcodes. Secure tripcodes are useless because they limit your identity to a single board, supposing each board/site's cipher key is different -- which it should be, since that's the point of having a secure tripcode in the first place. No one should be so paranoid about a tripcode that they'd need to have a different one per board/site.

>Not without doing a lot of changes throughout the code, and not without breaking current installations.

Shouldn't we sacrifice some backwards compatibility for a more robust and scalable design? It might even be possible to provide an upgrade.pl for old threads.

>>193

>You could only trigger the functions in a specific format, say...

That's a cool idea, though for now it would have to be left alone if we want to keep Kareha compatible with 2ch/Futaba conventions.

>>195
Exactly. The methods and the effects of saging a thread are separate subjects.

P.S. I recently discovered "rXX-XX" for threads in /soc/. How exactly does this work? From the sound of it, it's supposed to randomize the post order, but when I hit refresh I get the same order.

> Frankly, the combinations of many things into unrelated fields is a design flaw.

I don't think so, not in these cases. What's the alternative? Having a different field for fusianasan, a new checkbox for sage, etc.? That's just cluttering up the interface.

> What if you want to use a name/trip and fusianasan?

Then just make one post with your name/trip and one with fusianasan and let your ID show up in both.
fusiansan is just intended for rare or special cases anyway, as is the whole subject of identification on anonymous message boards.

> What if your email address contains the string 'sage'?

Huh?

> What if you want to sage a thread, but have an ID still?

Then the board has to be configurated to just do that (it already can).

> why should I have to remember something so foreign?

It's rarely needed anyway. Also, these things are pretty easy to remember. "sage" and "fusianasan" is all there is, really.

> 2channel does not do this either by default. It can make browsing a bit more convenient (and I suspect dedicated 2channel browsers to insert & read these in some kind of standardized way) but I don't think that's reason enough to impose it on users by default.

whoops, I misread "postcount" as "posticon". Nevermind!