Having changed it's name to 'kusaba' with the release of version 1.0, it really has "fucked itself up the wrong 'un", so to speak.
It has evolved from a poor imageboard script to a tragic 4chan emulator.
Nice job with the blotter there, Trev...
Trevorchan has an horrible written code and structure. Anyway I haven't used it, but seems a nightmare for any programmer.
It also has a wakaba-to-kusaba converter now.
It's doesn't just "open the door", the program has had a history of very serious security flaws.
like what? There hasn't been any vulns since 0.6
People will continue to use it, because it's the only thing on the block at the moment. It's features - at least in comparison to other board scripts - outweigh the ugliness of the code. I don't think most admins care that much about the source code anyway. For them, either it works or it doesn't.
I don't know what the big deal is. Security vulnerabilities come and go. I think it's more so a question of how quickly they're dealt with than it is whether or not they exist. I mean look up historical vulnerabilities for popular, expensive, commercial software like vBulletin and see how many different ways there have been to pwn it throughout time. Of course, they were remedied, but they should have been, because that shit costs a lot of money.
Probably one of the most sane/impartial statements so far.
>>12
Lol.
Seriously if there's so many people who know the language well enough to know it's poor code, why don't they work on their own script? Or do they just take the time to examine it to see if it sucks but have no interest in it otherwise? Personally I don't even know PHP well enough to discern, it would have to be really bad for me to even notice. (In before being accused of beint Trevor especially now.)
well, some people are coding their own, which is great. diversity = win. However, Im sure the majority of people here are simply joining in the circle-jerk of hate simply to make themselves feel important.
>> 13
I'm coding my own board script in PHP, I don't say that is better than Trevorchan or that it has more feautures, but the code is much more structured and I think is very simple to read and understand what it does.
Trevorchan has a lot of features, yes, he has done a good work on that, but on the other hand we now how the code is...
but the code is only important to those who care, and the average webmaster doesn't as long as it works... which kusaba does...
Yes, you have a point, but well written code lead to better performance, security and make the code easy to manage.
I know where you're coming from, however the fact is that overall there hasn't been a need to rewrite the code, so Trevor is driving for features.
Logically, if the performance, etc, does start becoming a problem then it'll be re-written. Kusaba can handle 7chan's load (it's the host giving them crap) so the script is fine performance-wise.
FUCKING RETARDS. ANY WEBMASTER THAT ONLY CARES IF SOMETHING WORKS OR NOT, AND DOESN'T CARE ABOUT VULNERABILITIES IN THE CODE OR SCRIPT EXECUTION TIME IS JUST AN IDIOT. JUST ANOTHER IDIOT WEBMASTER THAT WILL RUN A CHANSITE FOR ABOUT THREE WEEKS, GET ADDED TO THE OVERCHAN, AND THEN WHEN YOU GO TO CLICK THE LINK TO THE CHAN A MONTH LATER.. WABAM IT'S GONE BECAUSE THE PERSON RUNNING IT WAS A 15 YEAR OLD FAGGOT THAT DOESN'T KNOW OR CARE WHAT HE'S DOING AND THEN HE REALIZED HE COULDN'T PAY THE $10.00 A MONTH TO HIS SHITTY SHARED HOSTING. IE WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT PEOPLE USING TREVORCHAN?
As for myself and my dev team, we got tired of all the traditional chan fags complaining about anyone that requested a new feature for wakaba and we did it ourselves. If we can do it, any motherfuckers can. Even the 15 year old trevorchan using hermaphrodite can. Just learn yourself some CODEZ.
I wonder if more people would use our wakaba than the regular source... we might release it to public some day. Until then, we'll enjoy the fruit of our hard work and laugh at all the arguing kids on the boards.
> I'M YELLING LIKE A 15 YEAR OLD FAGGOT.
Who cares how many sites fail; it's the way of the internet. (I've always thought Overchan should have a more dynamic way of keeping track of its chansites, though.)
> Just learn yourself some CODEZ.
Right. See, the thing about writing clean code or defending against vulnerabilities is that in many ways it's dependent on your experience with the language and knowledge of possible vulnerabilities. The notion that webmasters should just get up, learn Perl, and start modifying Wakaba is very contradictory to the notion that they should also be conscious of how well their scripts are running and how vulnerable they are. Anyone can read a programming book and follow the examples but it takes more than just that to learn a language well.
More importantly is most webmasters aren't interested in all of that. They think, "man, I have an awesome idea for a chansite. I can either download and install kusaba, or I can spend several weeks or more modifying the much more efficient Wakaba to meet my goals." Regardless of their age which one do you think they'll pick.
Not to mention Perl isn't the most readable language, so a lot of people feel intimidated from the get-go as soon as they start reading Wakaba's source.
You don't actually need to modify Wakaba to use it, though. It's not missing any essential features.
> They think, "man, I have an awesome idea for a chansite.
they've already failed at that point.
> It's not missing any essential features.
Neither is vi for general text editing.
>>23
Most usually, although occasionally a site flourishes.
You can hack anything that you want with just teco and ddt.
My point still stands. Fags should stop complaining about the other fags that complain about the first fags complaining about features. Seriously.
>>24
what's wrong with vi?
Anyway, I haven't looked into kusaba/trevorchan/whatever, what features does it have that wakaba doesn't?
>>27
Well, there's just one admin panel for all the boards, but without being able to moderate more than one board at a time, because all the boards are in separate tables anyway, that's fairly pointless.
Besides that? bbcode, stickies, and thread locking (stupid misfeatures stolen from phpbb), a blotter (stolen from 4chan; also, just edit the rules), text boards (broken as hell, and useless), option to give people random names (stolen from Wakaba, but entirely halfassed), completely insecure secure tripcodes (rot13?!)... and on the subject of tripcodes... they're cached, so instead of running crypt() again when someone uses the same tripcode twice, it just does a mysql query to look it up (LOL WHAT).
Oh, and a bunch of crap stolen from 4chan's firefox extension, like a thread watcher, inline image expansion, thread hiding, and quick reply. Except, they're all halfassed so they don't work right, but they still take up space on the page and waste download time.
Oh, I almost forgot... wordfilters (also stolen from phpbb), and a plugin to make the word "penis" show up in random colors (stolen from 4chan).
> 3. Name: tj9991!Dongsf1Nqc!!DlATEuBJD2 @ 2007-09-03 03:02
> Bleh, I don't think it is right to be doing so much post editing to make it merit a new feature in the manage panel. I appreciate a few edits once in a while for legendary threads and massive failures, but editing posts isn't part of the traditional imageboard style, which while I may have lost it a long time ago, I'd like to stick to it with the same rules.
.....
> bbcode, thread locking, text boards, quick reply
All in Kareha. Sorta, anyway.
The rest sounds pretty pointless.
One thing I do wonder is why Wakaba is not deprecated in favor of Kareha. The latter piece of software seems better and more capable in most regards, and perhaps putting it in the forefront would help combat this "feature superiority" of trevorchan's that people talk about.
>>32 CPU usage! Kareha can get rather usage-heavy as the thread count rises.
>>31
So Trevorchan supports the god-awful idea of post editing?
>>29 a blotter (stolen from 4chan; also, just edit the rules)
The blotter was the best idea the 4chan staff has ever had; too bad, it doesn't work well in practice.
Also 29, halfassed doesn't even began to describe how broken Trevorba's thread watcher is.
>>34
i agree with the blotter being a really great addition to 4chan, and see no reason why features can't be 'borrowed' if they are particularly useful. It's not like the script was exactly copied.
Kusaba/Trevorchan does have it's usefulness to those who are poor at coding perl. If anything I would like to see the code cleaned up and organized better. I have used Kusaba for a while now and have done a lot of custom editting the php (don't know anything about Perl to be honest), and find it mostly useful. Watched threads is a complete failure, and often finds itself covering up any header info that is added. Board generation can be an issue ESPECIALLY if you are using shared hosting and can't get mod_headers installed. Generating html pages brings the drawback of pages caching on some browsers if you have shared hosting. A lot of the manage panel functions are broken, but I prefer to manually edit the sql tables anyway.
Overall I give Kusaba/Trevorchan 6.5/10 for it's ease to use, but hold it accountable for sloppy code and broken features
AS MUCH AS I HATE THE WAY MOST WAKABA USERS THINK I MUST SAY THAT WAKABA IS MY IMAGEBOARD SOFTWARE OF CHOICE. HEAVILY MODIFIED IN THE ASS, OF COURSE.
>>37
haha, pardon for the ign-esque post, lol. If I could edit the Perl myself I would probably use Wakaba, however for it's purposes Kusaba/Trevorchan has worked for me. The good thing about Kusaba is that trevor is often available to nag about bugs and fix shit, if I can't fix it myself that is.
>>38
And the good thing about Wakaba is that there aren't bugs and shit that needs to be fixed.
I know what "Wakaba" and "Futaba" means. ...So does "Kusaba" mean "shit leaves" ?
No, that would be 'kusoba'.
Kusaba means blades of grass, or grass leaves if you want to be literal.
Ah~ "shit leaves" would've been more fitting. </troll>
>>43
Even when shit leaves, the smell still lingers...
Trevorchan's first "stable" release was Trevorchan 0.9.0
By Trevorchan 0.9.4 he added so much extra shit THAT WAS NOT EVEN NEEDED trevorchan assploded
Kusaba 1.0.0 is a piece of shit.
I'm all for modifying Wakaba, but the problem is that the difficulty in doing so lies deeper than the fact that Wakaba was written in perl.
For one, he keeps everything in one file, so therefore the structure is not completley straightforward at first look. Many of the less-crucial subroutines are left completley without comments, and it is unclear what exactly they do.
I often get the feeling that I cannot understand a single subroutine in Wakaba without understanding all the subroutines.
>>47
It's in two files... wakaba.pl and wakautils.pl. Then of course you have futaba_style.pl, etc., but I'd consider those data (as opposed to code).
But yeah, one of the initial difficulties in understanding wakaba is its layout. Function names like post_stuff($$$$$$$$$$$$$$) don't really help either... but honestly, 3200 lines of code really is not that much to deal with. (Especially compared to trevorchan.)
>>47
I'm a stoner that didn't know any perl and I was able to add my own features to wakaba.
>>49
That probably speaks more of Perl than it does wakaba. I think in Perl any sequence of two or more ASCII characters is either an operator or built-in variable of some sort, so you could get high, hit random keys, and make something happen to wakaba.
>>51
Kirtaner aint got shit on this. His team can't even put together a decent sticky feature. lol I remember when they first implemented it and shit started disappearing from the stickied thread and appearing beneath it. Dumb.
>>53
Yes, well we have heavily modified our wakaba and everything works fine.
This thread says a lot about trevorsaba's userbase in so few words...
>>52
I wrote that in 30 minutes when I was overtired and it was replaced by completely working code a week later when the comedy of it wore off. TMYK.
>>57
Oh yeah and smart administrators put horrible code into use. Okay.
>>59
Um... a testing and development environment separate from the public site?
>>61
Try not to be a jerk to people just because they might be trolling. For that sort of question a straight answer could enlighten someone asking seriously, but ignoring or smartass comments helps to perpetuate poor administration.
>>65
Stop fagging the board up with your attempts to point out that you're a troll. I don't give a damn.
>>58
We have a specific board for testing new code, idiot. I just deployed the broken-ass stickies as they were because it amused most of the potheads on the site.
/weed/ was having a ball with it. When we put out the fixed stickies i had tons of people begging me to put the broken ones back.
>>68
Whoa calm down there Buzz Killington.
Somebody's on the rag.
Anyway, I remember being in your IRC and whatnot when all this rolled out.
I didn't realize how much seemingly intelligent people can be manipulated by idiots.
These days it's hard to tell who the idiots are!
hi guys, thought you might be interested to know what else tj9991's been up to:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Mudkip
>>74
It's on his web sight, http://tj9991.com
>>76
Honestly, I was bored the other day and thought "I wonder what tj9991 has been up to?" and actually clicked it. Not much is the answer.
Wakaba was daunting at first, especially since I hadn't touched Perl in some time before looking through it. I remember working through the references to arrays filled with references to hashes that are handed from subroutine to subroutine. If Wakaba were any larger, I would have given up.
Wakaba gets away with this structure because it isn't trying to be an extensible imageboard framework or a feature-perfect clone of another board. In my opinion, this is a feature. It's a good balance between a simple implementation and a simple user experience. If you understand tripcodes, age, and sage, you're set. Want to keep track of a thread? Simply bookmark it. Want to make your top-of-page rules look like posts? Just insert the appropriate HTML. I'm not against message boards with new features, but every time I see a stock Wakaba installation, I'm reminded of why I liked to post on such boards in the first place.
>>79
2chan is the obvious exception to "another board," of course...
>>79
Makes a good point. Wakaba's code is easy to read, and it doesn't take a half an hour to figure out what does what.
Hell, I've been messing around with a souped up version of wakaba (using some horrid web 2.0 additions. Lightbox for images anybody? Or modularizing futaba_style.pl so that differernt bits of code don't have to be in one file and can be simply edited?) and it amazes me how easy it is to add/remove things with the <if></if>s and the include{.
>>79
I especially like the simplicity of the user experience. I've given up completely on regular forums since they are incredibly bloated monstrosities that attempt to include every feature they can think of, to the point that actual post contents are overwhelmed by lots of superfluous images (remember spacer.gif?), postcounts, user sigs, etc. There's tons of code server-side to manage all that, too. These text boards are awesome compared to them.
This thread really tempts me to take Wakaba and hack all the Something Awful crap moot shoved into futallaby like stickies, BBCode, noko and stuff from the 4chon extension in.
I'd call it Wakaba-AIDS (Automatic Imageboard Destruction System). It's not like I condone any of those features, but WAHa will never do it and let's be honest, what would you prefer, people making shitty 4chan clones using fucking Trevorchan or people making shitty 4chan clones using a decent software?
I know, I know. The obvious answer is that you don't want stupid 4chan clones to begin with. But let's face it, people don't take a no for an answer and they're all going to turn to Trevorchan/Kusaba for their "I want to be the little moot" needs, thereby filling the Internet with that filled with security holes PHP crap.
Shitty 4chan clones do not suck because of the technology behind them, but because they are shitty 4chan clones. Megachan uses Kusuba and is pretty cool, in my opinion.
>>84
let me guess, you are from megachan? :) shut up faggot. nobody cares.
The software a website uses definitely has an impact on its shit factor. Kusaba adds at least 2,000 to any sites shit count. This is a documented fact.
>>85
Have you looked at megachan? I suggest you browse it a little.
I think the main reason it isn't complete trash is it doesn't have a /b/ or an /i/. Mostly the latter, as iichan's /b/ hasn't been too much of an idiot magnet except when 4chan goes down, but I think the existence of those two boards (or lack thereof) has a lot to do with the overall quality of the site, more so than what software it's running. The fact that the whole site is actively moderated has a lot to do with it as well.
Your argument is akin to the "oh, that site sucks because it uses (insert web server name here)" absurdity that I've also seen. It has no practical bearing on anything, and any site is only as good as the people who run it regardless of the software.
> The fact that the whole site is actively moderated has a lot to do with it as well.
That's a big turn-off for many channers, Also, what's wrong with oekaki?
Exactly. It's a turn-off for all the people who shit up the board, leaving the civilized posters.
Who said anything about oekaki?
>>86
Yeah.. I spent a few minutes browsing megachan and that was all it took to realize that it's just another niche faggot imageboard. Just because it has some boards that most people don't care about doesn't mean that it's civilized and above the rest. It's just another slow moving imageboard site to tack on to the endless list of slow moving imageboard sites.
Stop trying to fight for your precious megachan. It sucks. It's not because of Kusaba (but that doesn't help,) it's not because of the posters, and it's not because of the web server it's on.. It sucks because it is catering to some anime fanservice homosexuals.
> It sucks because it is catering to some anime fanservice homosexuals.
Show me an image board which doesn't. But at least you think megachan sucks for some reason other than it's software.
The sheer fact that you mentioned "catering to some anime fanservice homosexuals" shows that you have not actually looked at the site at all. But then, you're too busy jacking off your dad to care.
> But at least you think megachan sucks for some reason other than it's software.
Ignoring the hilarious it's/its mistake, all boards using Trevorchan suck. One word, the forced implementation of shitty 4chan features. Thread over.
>>94
Actually you can easily disable all of that stuff in the board configuration - not that anyone does, but if you turn off javascript it hides it all. (but you don't get the delete post checkboxes either, because they're inserted with document.write() for some damn reason.)
But I agree, most of those features are pretty brain-damaged, not to mention horribly implemented.
> meant to be - a 2chan imageboard minus the 4chan members.
It's pretty obvious it's meant to be a 4chan imageboard.
Perhaps the problem is that many people hate it when people around them willingly use inferior software. From a quality standpoint it would be fair imo to say Wakaba is objectively better than Kusaba, and for that reason I think a lot of people are pissed that Kusaba seems to enjoy any measure of popularity. But Kusaba provides features Wakaba does not, and even though it may implement them in a very half-assed way, most people just don't care.
I don't think it's a problem either, but I can understand those who seem frustrated at Kusaba. It's the same frustration I feel sometimes when I try to convince an IE6 user to switch to Firefox or Opera or even a new version of IE, and they just don't care. But then I relax and tell myself it's all good. :)
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