I'm using this now, but I'd like it better if it had these features:

• some way to open a folder from the command line ("open -a Xee ." doesn't work).
• some way to advance to the next image one-handed on a laptop keyboard, possibly with , and . (obvious joke goes here).

Thank you for your answers. I will try to get to Apple with Quicktime problem but also i hope to see Xee doing the right job.

Thanks again.

Thank you for this great application, I remapped the keys to my likings and always use it to browse through photos just downloaded from my camera. I like the possibility to set zoom to 1:1 pixel with a keypress, and then scroll around with the mouse. And it's fast!

I'd like to try 2.0 alpha, but I have a question: will it overwrite my current Xee preferences and/or make them unusable with 1.x versions? In other words, can I have both versions installed at the same time without them interferring with each other?

I'd also like to be able to see current image's exif data (e.g. in a popup window when in full screen) by pressing a key... would it be hard to add such a feature?

Thanks.

>>302

You can use them both side by side - 2.0 adds some new preferences, but doesn't break the old ones. And I am actually working on EXIF right now.

Small interface bug report:
Tested with version 2.0 alpha 2 on PPC
On the Copy/Move drawer, when dragging an item off the list and pressing escape while still dragging, the item is removed from the list. The expected behavior would be for that element to snap back in place (it's that way everywhere else and I think it's mentioned in the HIG).

Anyway, I really like the direction Xee is taking. With all those feature requests, it's nice to see that you don't intend to go all ACDSee on it in the next versions.

I asked people in Apple forum about those TIFF files. Quicktime can't display CYMK images, only RGB ones. This is it: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=623165&tstart=15

Vow,

implement simple thumbnail mode and simple folder bar and you created the best image browser ever!

Thumbs up!

Ta.

>>304

I'll try to get that fixed.

>>306

Since the Finder already has a thumbnail mode, I don't see why an image viewer would also need it.

I checked the new beta on my intel-macbook
Looks good..., but it crashes when I try to rotate a picture (rainbow-ball and I need to restart)

PS: I don't want/need a thumbnail mode - there are enough picture viewers with this feature and that's why I like Xee ;)

>>308

Probably the same problem as everyone else, turn off antialiasing in View -> Antialiasing.

Next version will have it off by default unless I can find an intel mac to debug it on. I really don't think it should even be possible to cause a bug like that, though, so I'm going to put some blame for that on Apple and buggy drivers.

Testing v2 beta on OS 10.4.7 PPC (iBook G4 1GHz), seems ok but it looks slower than 1.x when browsing pictures: I usually drag a photo folder on the application icon and then browse through photos one at a time, and with v2 very often I see a black area at the bottom of the screen immediately after advancing to the next photo, which is then filled up with the corresponding photo part; looks as if the photo still has to be completely drawn (or loaded?) when I'm already viewing it.
This didn't happen with v1.x. I tried deactivating antialiasing but it made no difference.

>>310

With 1.x, you'd just have seen a completely black screen for about the same amount of time. I'm trying to get progressive loading working properly so you can see the picture as it loads.

>>311

Well yes with 1.2.1 sometimes I see a black screen for a brief moment, but I can assure you that, globally, browsing the same folder with 1.2.1 is clearly much faster than it is with 2.0 alpha 2 (without antialiasing).
Maybe the 2.0 code is not optimized yet?

Ah, I turned off antialiasing and now it works (rotating images)!
Thank you very much ;)))

>>312

Some quick testing on just the JPEG loading code I did earlier showed that it is slightly faster than that in 1.2. However, I think that was testing code from later than alpha 2. Whenever I finally finish the next version, try again and see how it seems.

The alpha 2 causes my whole system to freeze and I need to reboot.
hope you get a intelmac to develop on soon.

great little tool. would love to have a simple slideshow-function like irfanview. zooming pictures looks quite bad compared to other tools. any way to improve that by some s-spline code or something like that?

>>315

Read the earlier posts about how to work around that.

>>316

No, it's not that easy, since the drawing is done with OpenGL. The 2.0 alpha has some trickery to produce prettier zoomed out pictures, though.

If you're referring to the zoomed in pictures, those are intentionally left pixelized, because I, at least, want to actually see the pixels in a picture when I zoom it.

How do we keep the "auto rotate" setting? There is no point in having to do that for every picture. It should remain the setting!

Just thought I'd upload a universal version of Xee 1.2.1. I couldn't find one and I can't stand the Rosetta load time. YUV decoding doesn't seem to work so go into prefs > advanced and set it to use RGB.

Here's a link:

http://rapidshare.de/files/35040937/Xee.app.zip.html

Can't wait for the anti-aliasing build, though I checked out preview and it doesn't seem to anti-alias either. It only seems to do that for PDF documents. Xee alpha 2 crashed my Intel Mac too as soon as it launched. You'd have thought there would be some way that the system would auto-recover from a graphics driver crash.

Sorry about using Rapidshare. For those of you who don't know how to use it, you have to click the button that says free and then wait for the timer to count down and then input a code. It should download the zipped program that is about 1MB in size.

--please forgive my poor english--
hi, i really like your app, it's great.
i have some suggestions. i noticed xee when i was searching an qiv alternative for the mac. so i would be really happy with some shell support like qiv. for example something like xee find . -name "*.jpg" to function would be great. (i found an workaround with open but it doesn't open all the pics given on the command line - just one and you can then browse the folder). another interesting feature would be an open dialog like the "go to folder" (don't know exactly the english local.) in the finder with path completion. i could think of much more... ;-)
thanks for the app! keep on coding.

>>319

There's a lot more than YUV that doesn't work. I'm pretty sure 32-bit PNGs won't work right either, and probably a bunch of other stuff.

To make alpha 2 work, run this in Terminal:
defaults write cx.c3.xee antialiasQuality 0

>>321

Xee won't open several windows for files in the same directory by default. You can change this in the preferences if you prefer it to always open new windows.

I just tested some 32-bit PNGs and they work ok. So far, I haven't found any problems compared to the PPC versionapart from YUV but I'll post if I find anything. I'd like to use alpha 2 but I don't want to rely on a preference to prevent my system crashing.

On the subject of the anti-aliasing, are you using the same techinques that games designers use for FSAA? Surely there must be a way to prevent it from crashing the system in order to debug it.

I also found this about OpenGL antialiasing:

http://homepage.mac.com/arekkusu/bugs/invariance/FSAA.html
http://homepage.mac.com/arekkusu/bugs/invariance/TexAA.html

Texture AA would work since you are dealing with quads.

Here's some Apple documentation on FSAA. You probably know about this stuff already but I thought I'd post it just in case:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/GraphicsImaging/Conceptual/OpenGL-MacProgGuide/opengl_fsaa/chapter_11_section_1.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001987-CH405-SW7

No, FSAA is pretty weak for antialiasing, and it's not supported on older cards anyway. I use other trickery, but there isn't really anything in there that should be able to crash the system, except maybe that I use all texture units. Of course, nothing should be able to crash the system in the first place, so something is definitely strange.

you misunderstood me, sorry.
the behaviour not to open many windows is good. what i wanted was something like a playlist - not just looping through the directory. maybe giving xee a file as playlist, or - as i meant - to give xee in the Terminal some files as argument: xee /dir1/file1.jpg /dir2/file2.jpg /dir2/file3.jpg /dir3/file4.jpg ...

Hi, I have a need for an image viewer that does something a little different from what Xee does -- unless I'm overlooking something. I sometimes use JSTOR, which is a service that serves scanned pages of old journals in GIF or JPEG format. I can save pages into a folder and then use a viewer to read them offline. Problem is, Xee opens images sized to fit the screen. So I have to cmd-0 to make the page legible, then arrow up to top of screen and start reading. At end of page I go to the next page... and Xee sizes it to the screen again, so I have to cmd-0 and arrow up to the top again, for every page. What I'd like is really two things: (1) once I've established a magnification, use it for all subsequent images unless I change it, and (2) concomitant with that, when I go to the next page, I want to be looking at the TOP of the next page (and for previous page, the BOTTOM of the page). I can understand why one might not want that mode of operation when looking at a folder full of pictures, but for this particular case of looking at scanned articles, Xee's behavior is annoying. So I guess I either need an "article mode" in Xee, or a different viewer. Suggestions?

Hi, I have a need for an image viewer that does something a little different from what Xee does -- unless I'm overlooking something. I sometimes use JSTOR, which is a service that serves scanned pages of old journals in GIF or JPEG format. I can save pages into a folder and then use a viewer to read them offline. Problem is, Xee opens images sized to fit the screen. So I have to cmd-0 to make the page legible, then arrow up to top of screen and start reading. At end of page I go to the next page... and Xee sizes it to the screen again, so I have to cmd-0 and arrow up to the top again, for every page. What I'd like is really two things: (1) once I've established a magnification, use it for all subsequent images unless I change it, and (2) concomitant with that, when I go to the next page, I want to be looking at the TOP of the next page (and for previous page, the BOTTOM of the page). I can understand why one might not want that mode of operation when looking at a folder full of pictures, but for this particular case of looking at scanned articles, Xee's behavior is annoying. So I guess I either need an "article mode" in Xee, or a different viewer. Suggestions?

View -> Automatic Zoom.

Sorry about the duplicate post; the board was acting weird yesterday. Maybe it always acts weird. We'll see.

I hadn't noticed the Automatic Zoom menu option (I'd been looking in Preferences). With that turned off, it does something like what I want. Not quite. It opens each new image at unit magnification, centered on the top leftmost part of the image. What I would like is for the new image to open at the same magnification as was used for the previous image. (I realized I talked about using cmd-0 on each page, but that was just an example; for some texts that is not be the ideal magnification.) And, ideally but not critically, when going back a page, it would centered on the bottom rightmost part of the image.

ALSO -- is there a way to turn off the "feature" where scrolling selects later/earlier images? I hate that. On my MacBook I'm so used to the idea that 2-finger dragging on the trackpad scrolls window content downward that I find myself doing it without thinking in Xee, instead of using the arrow keys... and I find myself looking at some later image in the folder rather than a lower part of the same image.

>>283
I saw that you've been unable to reproduce my crash when quitting from fullscreen in 2.0 alpha 2. It's consistent for me, so here's a screen of the crash report. It looks like a NULL dereference.
I'd respond on the Google page, but I don't have an account.

>>330

I think it might have been fixed by some changes I made in the current development version. When I finally get alpha 3 ready, try reporting back if the crash is still there or not.

(PS: _deallocHardCore: is the best method name ever.)

Hi, I love XEE, but I have an intel iMac (Core 2 Duo) I compiled a universal binary with XCode, but .jpg files are wierd looking.

(look @ attachment)

I opened a .png file, and it worked fine.

Thanks for you help.

Here's what it's supposed to look like.

>>332

Yes, that is why 1.2 is not Universal. You'll have to wait for 2.0, which will still take some time. There is an alpha version available, but you'll have to disable antialiasing or it will crash your machine. Check older posts in this thread.

Xee is simple and efficient, Yeah! :-)

just one request , view an edit keywords (i.e. spotlight search)

Can you do that?

hew i tried the alpha.

on a ppc some really big jpgs only load half way.

and i could reallllllly use hotkeys to move to specific folders (as in, you assign a hotkey to a folder, and then press that hotkey to move an image there)

and maybe some kind of movie file handling (acknowledgement and handling of movies, not viewing them) so i can move them into folders like i would a picture)

Hi, I'm enjoying Xee, and have two requests/suggestions regarding automatic JPEG rotation:
1) differentiate between displaying an image with auto-rotation applied, and performing lossless rotation on the image file. I didn't realize that "auto rotate" would change my files on disk, but I can see that was the result. (Such file modification should be obvious or pop up a warning, especially since it can't be undone.) I appreciate the option to perform lossless rotation on my files, but usually I'm primarily interested in viewing images at the proper orientation, without altering the files. I suggest two different functions for displaying/performing rotation.
2) Make "display with automatic rotation" a sticky option in the preferences, such that it's truly automatic (without user intervention on each JPEG image).

Thanks for an outstanding app.

>>337

I've been working on pretty much just that, but I lost the code in a drive crash. I'm working on re-creating it now.

@ Chris Love

Xee Universal works great... just set in Pref -> Advanced -> RGB !!

not YUV... then the colors comes ok!

cya

>>339

There are most likely other formats that do not work, even if you do that. .icns might be one.

OK, Xee may seem like it's dead, but this is actually just because of me totally fucking up my development cycle, and suddenly starting to re-design several interal parts of the code at the same time, and then getting distracted by adding other new features on top of that, and then finally having a goddamn hard drive crash and losing like two months of work on the damn thing, and so on, and so on. Lesson learned: Release early, release often, and goddammit, upload the source too. So with that in mind,

http://wakaba.c3.cx/releases/mac/Xee2.0alpha3.zip

This version has been so long in development I forgot half of the stuff I did. I finally got my Intel mac so it's been fixed up to work correctly on Intel now, at least. However, I still couldn't replicate the antialiaser crash, so nothing has been done about that, except to disable antialiasing by defualt on Intel. If some brave people would try and see if it still crashes under 10.4.8 when they turn it on, that would be very helpful.

Other stuff I can remember:

• Progressive image loading.
• Support for EXIF and other metadata.
• Rotation for any kind of image.
• New saving code.
• Updated JPEG loader.
• Maya IFF loader.
• Scroll wheel behaviour can be customized.
• Scrolling keys can be customized.

Stuff that is broken in this version:

• No lossless JPEG transforms. This is being re-written, because:
• There is a crop option which doesn't do anything really useful yet. It will in the future, however, AND it will support lossless cropping for JPEGs!

Works very well here, thanks.

What ACDSee on Windows had was not only rotate pics but also store them losslessly again. Something for you to implement? Would be awesome!

Besides of that, it seems to work well on my MacBook Pro 17" Intel Duo Core. Great Job

>>344

That's what I'm working on now.

Xee is awesome. It's just the app I've been looking for. Thanks so much for making this app available for us.

I've just tried Alpha 3, and I'm sorry to report the anti-aliasing is still crashing my Core 2 Duo MacBook, running on 10.4.8. :(

For what it's worth, I used to run Xee 2 Alpha 2 on my MacBook Pro, and the anti-aliasing never caused a crash on there. However, it has on this MacBook and the previous one that I exchanged for this one. So I'm wondering if it's related to the integrated 950 graphics chip?

If you'd like me to try any potential fixes, feel free to email me at "jason at resequenced dot com".

Thanks!

> So I'm wondering if it's related to the integrated 950 graphics chip?

It's looking a whole lot like it. None of the Intel machines I've had try it have experienced any crashes, and none of them had the 950 chip.

Xee is a BEST picture viewer for MAC!
Can you put a little option?
When open an image with Xee, then show me full screen automatically.
That's will be PERFECT!
Anyway thx for this cool software!

http://wakaba.c3.cx/releases/mac/Xee2.0alpha4.zip

Lossless JPEG transforms now work, including cropping - however, there is still no crop tool, so that's not very useful yet. However, this will come soon.

But right now, you can rotate an image, and when you select Save As, you have the option to save it without recompressing. EXIF data and thumbnail should be updated correctly, too.

Awesome to see on the lossless tranforms. I will be making good use of that.

Just for kicks I made my computer crash with the antialiasing bug again, to see if maybe it was fixed by accident in alpha 4. :) Nope, still freezes the screen solid.

PhotoPresenter, Preview and iPhoto all managed to find a way to antialias (eg "resample" or "interpolate") downsized images on my 950 chip without crashing. Maybe you can ask the PhotoPresenter guys how they handled it?

Thanks again for the awesome app.

>>351

It's easy if you use the normal, slow APIs. Xee uses OpenGL all the way, which makes it fast, but also makes antialiasing hard.

That said, there's nothing wrong with the code that is there now that I can think of, and I really suspect this is a bug in the 950 OpenGL driver, which I'll have to work around somehow.

Great program! Are you going to release the source for Xee 2? I desperately need to display arbitrary exif tags in full screen mode.

>>353

It's there in the same directory. If you're thinking of hacking it, be aware that since it's still in alpha, I'm doing some pretty big changes on it constantly, so keep me up to date if you want stuff included.

Finnaly! Great program. I would be very usefull to configure xsee to open in fullscreen mode (like PhoenixSlides) and display important exif info transparent (like PhoenixSlides)

Xee2.0alpha4.zip won't work with my Mac OS X 10.3.9 ?
After unzip, open the application but it just close itself (boucing at the dock for a second and disappear again).

Xee1.2.1.zip works though, but i want to try Xee2Alpha4 version.

Now, here are some fairly big updates:

http://wakaba.c3.cx/releases/mac/Xee2.0alpha5.zip

• The antialiaser crash on MacBooks should be fixed. I finally found a test machine, and found out that the OpenGL driver for the GMA 950 chipset really does seem to be broken. It reports having eight texture units, but if you try to use more than seven, it crashes. Workaround added, and bug filed with Apple.
• Archive support. Xee can now load files out of any file format that The Unarchiver can read (except for tar.gz and tar.bz2 at the moment, as it needs extra code and doesn't seem useful). To make it work, you need The Unarchiver installed!
• Realtime updates of the file list. Adding, renaming and deleting files (or the directory itself) should now be handled automatically!
• Slightly updated look for the status bar. Still needs some better icons, though - any takers? Designing useful 16x16 icons is hard.

Some of the code is very untested. Please report any and all problems! The more testing you do, the better!

>>356

It probably doesn't support 10.3, no. I might fix that later, but it's hard since I don't have a 10.3 machine to do testing on.

Oh... i'm outta luck then. Can only stick with version 1.2.1. T.T

Some requested features:

http://wakaba.c3.cx/releases/mac/Xee2.0alpha6.zip

• Automatic slideshow
• Looping images when browsing
• Auto-fullscreen mode
• Some bugfixes

All the new stuff is accessible from the menus (which have also been re-arranged a bit).

Yes! The anti-aliasing problem on the MacBook is indeed fixed. Perfect.

Love the auto-fullscreen mode too. Finally, I feel like I've found a replacement for Irfanview. :)

Thanks again for creating such an awesome program. This will be a huge hit when it's done.

Wow! Archive support is very nice feature. It's really great program. Thank you! :)
But if you add 'Show two pages' feature, xee will be best comic viewer.
Currently, I use cooviewer for archived comics file. I believe xee will replace cooviewer in near future. :D

Thank a ton! Xee is the greatest viewer ever I've seen.

BTW, is it possible to view all the pictures rotated? It is, like a monitor itself is rotated. I have many pictures which was taken vertically. Instead of rotating each images, I just want them to be 'automatically rotated Clockwise or Counter-clockwise'.

Thanks again for great software.

>>365

Well, if your camera has an orientation sensor and writes the orientation data to the file, 2.0 can show it automatically rotated (turn this on in the advanced preferences). If it doesn't, there's currently no way to do that. I guess it would technically be possible to add support for that, but it's kind of a rare situation...

How about an option to automatically move the mouse pointer to keep it on the toolbar button last clicked on? This would be handy for scrolling through directories of pictures of varying size without having to reposition the mouse on the 'Next picture' button.

>>367

There is already the option to not resize windows when clicking in the toolbar, which is on by default. Moving the mouse pointer is generally a big no-no, user interface design-wise.

Some polishing:

http://wakaba.c3.cx/releases/mac/Xee2.0alpha7.zip

Fixed some full-screen bugs, such as problems with animation. Viewing meta-data in fullscreen now works, and the metadata display is a bit prettier. Made the scroll wheel browsing work a bit better and fixed some pre-caching problems for random skipping.

>>357

Adam Betts made replacement icons a while back (>>251 or http://www.artofadambetts.com/weblog/?p=119). They look really good.

>>370

I tried them earlier, but they don't quite do it for me. I might ask him for some changes and use them, though.

it would be very usefull to display exif info transparent just like in PhoenixSlides

Archive support! Wonderful. A little slow on first load, but a lot of formats are supported. Very nice update.
For an Open Recent menu, would you need to subclass NSDocumentController?

And again!

http://wakaba.c3.cx/releases/mac/Xee2.0alpha8.zip

• As requested, it is now possible to sort by name, size or time. Also, by default, Xee will try to find out how you were sorting files in the Finder, and use that order.
• Also as requested, there are now keyboard shortcuts for the first ten entries in the destination list. Configurable, of course, along with the rest.
• I have been tracking down and fixing memory leaks. I think I have most of them now, except for those that seem to be inside OS X itself.

xee sucks

personally i install gentoo portage and emerge wine plus use a hacked version of microsoft image viewer you should too

Oops, I broke archive support in alpha 8 (which I didn't notice because it DID work when started from Xcode, but not otherwise). Fixed:

http://wakaba.c3.cx/releases/mac/Xee2.0alpha9.zip

Been a fan of this program for a few months now - I love it. Version 2.0 alpha 4 works great on my 10.4.8 intel mac, but alpha 9 crashes upon launch. If i can provide any additional help for testing let meknow

PS - regarding "Anonymous"' post on using hacked Microsoft products instead ....>sigh<

>>377

If you can post the crash log, that would help.

Your viewer is AMAZING !!! It's fast, acurate, ... and the antiliazing feature is wonderful ! Congratulations.

Thank you so much! Your work is really fantastic! Alpha 9 works great on my MacBook!

First off, love your program. Something I've noticed. This picture is always deformed when viewed through all of the Universal alphas so far and sometimes crashes. As soon as I figure out how to put up a crash log, I'll do that.

Here you go.

Wow, that is some image. Gecko won't load it, the thumbnailer on this board won't load it. Preview says it's CMYK, so I guess nobody likes those. Well, I'll try to make Xee load it.

Correction: The file is in YCCK, not CMYK. libjpeg has no built-in converter for YCCK to RGB, so I will have to code something up at some point. For now, I've made it not crash, at least.

All right, I think I've got most of the stuff I absolutely want to have in this version. Time for a feature freeze, and switching to beta. Well, probably not a complete feature freeze, but from here on I'll try to mostly do bugfixes and polish.

This means I need more bug reports! Please take some time to really test features in Xee, and tell me of ANYTHING that breaks, or doesn't work like you expect it to!

http://wakaba.c3.cx/releases/mac/Xee2.0beta1.zip

• Finally, a working crop tool! Big thanks to squeeks for helping me design this. We're still tweaking that, so it's not quite done, but it should be pretty good as it is.
• Some interface tweaks.
• Added a super-dumb CMYK converter to the the JPEG loader, so >>381 loads, even if the colours are a bit off.

The behavior is odd when opening new files from fullscreen, in single-window mode particularly.

May I suggest Xee use the Sparkle framework for updating? This would make it convenient to get the latest betas and test them during development, as well as upgrades for the stable version in time.

Thanks for the great software :)

The crash that I was experiencing with alpha9 no longer occurs after using the version you posted on 2006-12-14 at 18:32. Great application, sir!

The crash that I was experiencing with alpha9 no longer occurs after using the version you posted on 2006-12-14 at 18:32. Great application, sir!

So far, it's opened everything I've thrown at it. No discoloration, either.

One thing I've noticed is that CMD-0 doesn't seem to work on any picture with 2.0 beta 1. Although, going to View > Actual Size does work. Is anyone else experiencing this or is it just my machine?

>>386

Noted and reproduced.

>>387

It looks nice enough, but Sparkle.framework is about half the size of Xee. That doesn't really make it very appealing to bundle with every download.

>>390

Oh. That is because I added Cmd-0 as a shortcut for "Copy to tenth destination", since Cmd-1 to Cmd-9 are the first nine ones. I guess that's a problem. Maybe I'll just remove the tenth shortcut...

>>390

Also: To work around it, open the keyboard shortcuts and remove the other shortcut.

Cool. I didn't even think about that... Yep, works fine. Everything's good.

Hi!
Is there an option or setting to remember rotated images? When I'm rotating an image and I browse back, it's unrotated again?!

I love xee, and it has replaced preview on my powerbook! Many thanks! it crashes somewhat (1.2.1) more often that I'd like but it's still feature rich and i love the intuitive keyboard navigation, it's a total oreo cookie! (ie: good :)

I love xee, and it has replaced preview on my powerbook! Many thanks! it crashes somewhat (1.2.1) more often that I'd like but it's still feature rich and i love the intuitive keyboard navigation, it's a total oreo cookie! (ie: good :)

I love xee, and it has replaced preview on my powerbook! Many thanks! it crashes somewhat (1.2.1) more often that I'd like but it's still feature rich and i love the intuitive keyboard navigation, it's a total oreo cookie! (ie: good :)

>>394

Right now, you have to save pictures explicitly to keep the rotation. I might add some kind of optional auto-save. I haven't quite worked out how I want that to work.

>>395

Try to see if the beta 2.0 crashes any less. If it still crashes, post me some crash logs.

About the rotation:
I see.. hoping this feature will be in any next future's version ;)))
I'm using the old version again, because I need that... :(

>>399

It's definitely one thing I need to fix before the final 2.0 version.