Since this was being discussed in another thread where it was totally off-topic, I think it's time for it to have its own thread. Here we discuss the word "hentai" (and "ecchi"), and the difference in meaning between the original Japanese words and the English usage of them.
> Yes, it is a valid argument, because it's hypocritical for someone who is clearly not worried about their misuse of my language to get all in a huff over my misuse of theirs.
You are massively confusing issues here:
> So as a professional linguist (of sorts)
I lolled
HENTAI! KAWAII! BUKKAKE!
http://img424.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hkb3ga.png
PS: imageshack seems to automatically disable viewing of pictures that have "hentai" or "bukkake" in their name.
>It is not the Japanese who are majorly complaining here.
You're right; it seems to be otaku who are complaining because a few Japanese are complaining, as translated in >>4. And they must be right and correct because they are Japanese.
>There is no way for you to verify if the Japanese who do complain are the same who make the errors themselves.
At the level that my above examples are seemingly embedded into the Japanese language, I'm pretty sure that would be the case. Regardless.
>None of the issues are reven remotely touching the objective reasoning that the specific use of the specific word "hentai" in the English context is incorrect.
No, but it is touching the fact that only wankers really care about it.
> You're right; it seems to be otaku who are complaining because a few Japanese are complaining, as translated in >>4. And they must be right and correct because they are Japanese.
Your anti-wapanese sentiment is silly.
> No, but it is touching the fact that only wankers really care about it.
Okay, then please stop posting in this thread, wanker.
Member of the Anti-Hentai club: Dear Japanese, don't you think that from a grammmalological viewpoint, we the Westerners are so silly to use the word "hentai" in such a risible fashion?
Toshiaki: I don't care how it's called, just post the pictures!
:)
>>134 gets it!
Member of the Anti-Anti-Hentai club: Dear professional linguist, I am lazy and don't want to change my behaviour, despite how incorrect it may be.
Professional linguist (of sorts): That's okay, language evolves all the time. It's a living thing, mang! Logic has nothing on this beast! And just like women, it only exists to promote your sloth!
sometimes I look at some of the things said and really wonder about the school system these days. but what can I say when literacy rates are so so low.
I will agrea with the evolution of language and the borowing of language. english after all is made up of 7. as for the use of hentai beeing ok or not, well, that has changed over time too. it was mentiond before how it wasn't used the same way it is now several years ago. I would say this is because moest people in the past knew, watched, and were intrested in anime and manga because they were allready surddying japanese and the culture, that is at least my understanding. or, were othwise part of an asian heritage, or living on the pasific coast. yes hentai is the wrong usage. will the usage be fixed when using it in english context? no. not unless you can get the countless milions to change.
but there are lots of missuesd words. anime beeing short for animation was before mentiond. in a sence I guess its true. though anime is aslo just animation in french I beleiv. in english it is used to mean japanese animation in order to diferentiate it from american or european animation. but does anyone remember the term japanamation? people tried to coin that, it faild.
manga, comic, does it matter? I mean Ive had my head bitten off practicly for calling a 'graphic novel' a comic, and no I don't mean manga. I remember when manga wasn't used, it was just graphic novels but then there was a desire to make it difrent then the american comics. I think some of that was due to the fact in the begining it was doing well among girls who were a verry low seller for american comics. so they removed it as much as posible. I wonder if manwa will now be used more so its not confused with manga? 'god forbid japanese comics and korean comics get mixed up!'
other words misued from english basterdasation, yaoi and yuri. Ive seen people discribe yaoi as "gay men" now, how wrong is that? since yaoi is an acronym for more or less PWP 'plot what plot?' and if you mention this to the raving fan girl she will rip your head off and eat your heart while it still beats. and if you try to point out why its wrong she has some friend whos japanese and uses it that way. and you find out said friend just finds it easier to adapt for her and not correct her for japanese usage, but to leave it as american usage. but, I won't start a 'the correct and incorrect ways to discribe gay male anime, manga, doujinshi, and games' discution.
in the end, though this sounds like a cop out, we are all wrong. the japanese find us odd and a litte frightening for what we focuse on. we think there odd for using nonsence words on evorything or using words that discribe something else. the words are beeing taken and changed adapted and turnd to slang. this is the key here. slang. slang is never correct. slang has no meaning in a dictionary untill someone finaly goes 'they this words been around for a while in the pop cuture lets put it in' slang can be anything the users want it to be.
an example of turms used horibly wrong. a few years back I remember reading a small artical, or perhaps I heard it on the radio. but the point is this happend. india, the entire country, band one of the austin power movies, the spy who shaged me. now america was like 'whats wrong with them?' and india was like 'how horibly ofensive to have in the title!' wich if you think about it is rather awful. it shows how lack our culture (by wich I mean americans and thoughs greatly infulenced by them) is with stuff like that. I remember hearing on the radio, yes it was one of thoughs boring npr type stations witht the bbc and cbc pbs npr people, this guy talking about the loose way the curent generation speaks, throwing otherwise curs words this way and that. this was a british program by the way. now I try not to stray to far off topic but I hope it all brings my point through, I'm sorry if it doesn't. that as said before language is a flowing breathing living growing thing. now instead of arguing how to use hentai within the enlgish language, why not simply use it in acordance with japanese language only when speaking to japanese. and I would expect them, to eccept what is beeing used on english boreds.
That argument would carry more weight if the Toshiaki weren't constantly making fun of westerners for saying "hentai".
>>140
To be fair, making fun of something doesn't neccessarily imply that they really care about the issue.
However, it's already been said that this isn't about us westerners getting together to fulfill an expressed request made to us by some Japanese but rather coming to terms with erroneous usage of language which is most apparent in intercultural dialogue and which both us and the Japanese are aware of.
So far, it seems that the only general stances against a more correct usage of language in these issues are that
Feel free to correct and/or amend me here.
>>140 Bull.
My understanding is that they are using it jokingly, for example as a reference to anime/manga where the girl is protesting to the guy for showing sexual interest. It's like winking at the audience, and the audience is other Japanese. It is NOT intended at an English speaking audience. They don't care what the English speakers think, the English speakers are not even supposed to speak on 2ch anyway.
At most, English speakers are viewed as partners to practice one's own English. "Hey look, I know a few English words: MOE! Hentai! Otintin! Now, please praise me!" :)
>>138 >anime is aslo just animation in french I beleiv
Wrong. Animation in French is Animation.
I would make more of an effort to understand what you said if you used proper spelling.
>>140
I agree with >>141. I mean, you always hear us talking about "those crazy Japanese," but do we really care about their use of our language?
Well, we might find it funny/weird and/or wrong, and if they specifically asked us what we thought about the improper use of a certain phrase we would most likely speak against it, but none of us will probably start an educating campaign against certain words.
>>142
You are either confusing Futaba Channel with 2ch or are unaware of 2ch not being an abbreviation for Futaba Channel.
> My understanding is that they are using it jokingly
That's what "making fun of" means, no?
> I agree with >>141. I mean, you always hear us talking about "those crazy Japanese," but do we really care about their use of our language?
We care to the extent that we like to make fun of them. That's all I said they were doing, too.
That was my whole point. Sling said they "don't care", I returned that they care enough to make fun of it. If they didn't care, they wouldn't joke about it. We care about the Japanese mis-using English to the point that there are websites devoted to it. We don't care about many other languages mis-using English (and many do), so we don't make jokes about those.
>We care to the extent that we like to make fun of them.
mmm... But my point was that I think we may not necessarily care at all.
People link/send me funny pictures and video clips all the time.
I don't really have to care about who/what the subject is about to find the humor in it.
>>149
The absence of any care at all is apathy.
You don't laugh about things you feel apathetic about.
"Anime" is the English word "animation" with the unpronounceable final syllable dropped. The French word is spelled with an accent: "anime´."
× anime´
○ animé
And "animé" means "animated", not "animation".
>>150, is the problem ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care.
Language is a convention made by humans, for humans in a closed society. Now that is the same for imported words from every foreign country.
Well, it's due to the universality of language that many misinterpretations are made and makes the situation all .. weird.
Maybe we all need to learn what languages are for.
Did you have a point, or do you just like listening to yourself talk?
> Maybe we all need to learn what languages are for.
> listening to yourself talk
perhaps that is because it is a tired subject. you either like it or you don't, and no amount of talking about it is going to make any difference. so fap to it, or don't.
doesn't hentai also mean "abnormal" or "sick"? ("sick" as in "I got the flu" not "OMGBOOBIES!!!11oneoneLOLKOLOLOL!!")
I was watching a japanese tv show with english subtitles - i swear I heard "hentai" somewhere in there as the dude went to hospital... and another time when it was used for "weird" or "strange"...
I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean "sick", in that sense.
>>162
I bet you heard "hen", which just means "strange".
Hello languagelog readers. This is a web sight. Let's be friends.
No thank you #166. Since this IS a website, I'm afraid I have to kill you. Wait just a minute, I'll throw a knife at you via the internet connection!!
Does this mean the language log guy browses imageboards?
Be still my beating heart.
Probably has more to do with this thread being linked from Wikipedia. Well, I do enjoy languagelog from time to time, so I'm happy about getting a link.
I stumbled across http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hentaigana while reading the article about that IME thing.
From it:
> Note that this hentai (変体: "variants") is not the same word as the hentai (変態) from which the English slang term is derived.
More evidence that hentai can mean different things, I guess.
>>170 That's a litle different, though: different word construction altogether.
Yes, Japanese contain innumerable homophones. This is seldom relevant in any way.
>>176
H = Ecchi
it's not the abbreviation of your 'Hentai'.
Is it werid I thought it pronounced hental?
Is it weird I thought it pronounced hental?
hentai? in one piece when franky said it i thought it ment transform 0_o
some one please answer these qeustions
what are the differences between henshin, hentai, and hengei
henshin - transform
hentai - pron (at least in the us)
hengei - ????
> hentai - pron (at least in the us)
Somehow I think he was asking about Japanese, not English.
Just my OP.
ecchi - No visible women nipples or anus and genitalia of either gender. Maybe cameltoe, poking-up tits under clothes, and bulging can be acceptable ecchi. It is called "ecchi" after all. (Used in sentence: "Not sure exactly how it looked, the details were ecchi.)
Hentai - Every part of the body can be exposed and captured in every position and usage.
Just my OP.
ecchi - No visible women nipples or anus and genitalia of either gender. Maybe cameltoe, poking-up tits under clothes, and bulging can be acceptable ecchi. It is called "ecchi" after all. (Used in sentence: "Not sure exactly how it looked, the details were ecchi.)
Hentai - Every part of the body can be exposed and captured in every position and usage.
Please read the fucking thread before posting, OK? Make the tiniest little effort.
>>198-198
Please read your post before posting, OK?
Make the tiniest little effort.
hentai?
My Japnese means the word weaker than eccentric.
you know, if you say me hentai, I will smile you.
The word is used as erotic.
>>197
ecchi?
My country japan uses as sex and sexual.
you know, this behavior and word.
Sex is not used usually.
This is why that word is beyond moral.
>>197
ecchi?
My country japan uses as sex and sexual.
you know, this behavior and word.
Sex is not used usually.
This is why that word is beyond moral.
hentai is SEXY!!!!!
englich basis words are more known then japanse ones (are really japanse for hentai, ecchi O_O awesome XD )
but ecchi is like hentai i call more topless or almost no clothers pll =_=
We've really got some brilliant minds in this here thread now.
what hentai make you minds more smarty =_=
誰もここで私を理解しません :'(
(ーー;)
i like hentai hentai is not the thread u are the fucking thread all can go to hellv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
i like hentai hentai is not the thread u are the fucking thread all can go to hellv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Hentaimedia is restricted in Japan. It is not possible to export to the
United States any longer.
It is an electric wave woman who says unknown nationality Agnes Chang and
Unicef Association of Japan (an irrelevant cult group to UNICEF of the United
Nations) that try to restrict.
Because Japanese Government wants also to market Csoga Csomanga that China
and South Korea are trivial, it begins to assist, and please ..state of
annihilation.. have and help.
well you're right i love hentai but some kinda of virus had make my com sick T_T that's all bye love but have virus~
sling is dead
>>222
Untrue. He posts on iichan's news all the time.
This is a natural process. Most words that are "imported" from other languages changes their meaning.
