http://ykk.misago.org/Volume1/126 Alpha and Takahiro
http://ykk.misago.org/Afternoon2002/23 Takahiro and Alpha
- martialstax
Tuesday, March 9, 2004
Yes, I loved that. The author is making a point about how rapidly Takahiro is growing up. Alpha is growing up very slowly. Takahiro is the older brother now.
Alpha's emotional and intellectual state is a puzzle. Is she a case of arrested development, slow learning, or regression? She is less mature than her younger "sisters" Kokone and Maruko. This may be the result of her self-imposed isolation, but it may indicate other problems.
She is sincere and loving but she is also curiously immature. Her lack of artifice is a big part of her charm. I wonder if owner left her at the house because she was developing so slowly. While other robots had matured and gone out into the world, she remained in her safe cocoon. Her cafe really is not much of a business. She runs it as if she were a kid with a roadside lemonade stand. It is not a business, it is a training ground.
An odd thought occurred to me about the cafe. In the typhoon story, Ojisan comes to Alpha’s house and takes her to the more secure gas station. Then he runs off on his own to do something. When Alpha returns home the next day, she finds the café destroyed. The house is only slightly damaged. I wonder about this. Was this just an unhappy accident or a case of tough love? Did the typhoon wreck the café by itself or did Ojisan help it (by pulling down supports or opening windows, etc.). Was the destruction of the café an attempt to force Alpha to leave home and explore?
- Loran
Tuesday, March 9, 2004
I seriously doubt Ojisan did anything to help the typhoon destroy Alpha's cafe. I think the answer is a little more prosaic. The cafe was an addition to the main house. It was probably a weaker structure and couldn't stand the force of the wind.
I don't know if I'd say Takahiro is an older-brother figure to Alpha, now. He's grown both physically and emotionally, but he's still a little brother to Alpha. She's now watching him going off to school and into the world, and her point of view is still as an older sister and friend.
I don't know if Alpha really needs to mature much more than she has. It's not as if she's immature, exactly. Like you say, she's totally without articifice, but I think that just her personality. I think she's matured about as much as she's going to. Of course there's more to learn about herself, but that's true of anyone, no matter how old or mature.
- martialstax
Tuesday, March 9, 2004
Sometimes Alpha seems very young, almost childish. Other times, she seems very mature. I'm thinking in particular of chapter 45 ("Everyone's Ships", [v6, p25]). Also, consider the contrast between her behavior and Maruko's.
I wish we knew how old Alpha is. Older than Kokone, we know, and probably older than Maruko and Nai, but with less experience of the world.
- dn
Tuesday, March 9, 2004
Howdy,
Alpha, being an M2 prototype model, is older than Maruko or Kokone, and we have to assume Nai as well. My guess is that the M2 models are anywhere from 10 to 40 years old, based on Seisei's recollection her time with M1 model Director Alpha.
One thing that just struck me is that the "production models" (Kokone, Maruko, Nai) went through the training center before going out into the world. The M2 prototypes probably were individually placed with individuals because the training center hadn't been set up yet. So it's likely that the production models received some sort of standard training with how to deal with the world that Alpha did not get.
That leaves the problem of Director Alpha, who being the M1 prototype is earlier than Alpha. She seems pretty worldly, but I guess we can chalk that up to experience.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Tuesday, March 9, 2004
I don't know if I agree that Alpha's development is arrested or stunted. It would seem to me that her behavior is more in tune with her perspective as an "ageless"/"timeless" being.
Going along with this, I don't know if I agree that Alpha is immature. I can see how sometimes it seems like she is because of her lack of artifice and her reactions that suggest that she's oiblivious to certain implied situations (i.e. Maruko's implied relation with Kokone). However, when I look deeper, I get the feeling that Alpha does pick up on these nuances, and accepts them (going back to the Maruko / Kokone scene, she actually comments that it must be nice to have that sort of relationship).
Overall, I think Alpha has a very good grasp of the situations around her, she just seems to be very accepting and straight forward when dealing with them. I can see how this makes here a bit naive, but I can't really agree that she's immature.
- FD
Tuesday, March 9, 2004
In what chapter is it stated that Alpha is a prototype model? I'm sure you're right, but I just can't remember it being mentioned in the manga.
- martialstax
Wednesday, March 10, 2004
It took me a while to remember myself.
http://ykk.misago.org/Volume4/63
- Loran
Wednesday, March 10, 2004
Howdy,
For reference, the model names are introduced in this page, as is the difference between Alpha and Kokone.
http://ykk.misago.org/Volume2/8
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Wednesday, March 10, 2004
Ah, thanks for the links. I somehow completely missed that part with Sensei talking about Alpha. One of three prototypes, eh?
- martialstax
Thursday, March 11, 2004
Howdy,
My pet theory is that Ayase is the second M2 prototype. No clue as to who the third is.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Thursday, March 11, 2004
Ayase a robot? I suppose it's possible, but I've never considered it before. Didn't he see the Misago when he was young, though?
- martialstax
Thursday, March 11, 2004
He might have seen the Misago when he was "young." In other words, when he was new.
- Loran
Thursday, March 11, 2004
Would it be safe to guess that the three prototypes have the same face? Alpha, Director Alpha, and maybe this one:
http://ykk.misago.org/Volume6/45
- Kempis Curious
Friday, March 12, 2004
Howdy,
Director Alpha is an M1 prototype. We don't know how many were made. Alpha is a M2 prototype, one of three. The other two are unknown, though I suspect that Ayase is one.
The memorial does not say which series it is commemorating. There could have been Alpha prototypes in the A1-A6 series. But, it's not a bad guess that it commemorates one of the A2 prototypes. We already know a bunch of A7M3 males died.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Friday, March 12, 2004
Howdy,
>But, it's not a bad guess that it commemorates one of the A2 prototypes.
Whoops. I meant one of the A7M2 prototypes.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Saturday, March 13, 2004
I think the memorial was built for the whole Alpha series and not a specific category within. As for Ayase, IMHO he subtle aged between chapter 10 http://ykk.misago.org/Volume2/40
and chapter 98 http://ykk.misago.org/Afternoon2002/134, and not just 'cause he grew a beard in the latter. YKK's timeline runs in sync with the releases, right? About 8 years have passed between this two chapters, and Ayase went from his early thirties to about forty, with a few grey hairs by now. He's also seems to be looking for some kind of successor, right? I don't buy the idea of a "young" but full-grown Ayase getting in contact with the Misago - size seems to matter to her;-)
*Her* agelessness cries for "robot person" though, albeit the fanges and prolonged nails seem to speak against it. But it's not written in stone that all prototypes have to be of similar appearance, just because the two Alphas do . Add the fact that Misago has the same red-brown hair, love for the color blue (Heaven, water) and reluctancy regarding clothes that Sensei describes as typical for the A7M1 Prototype Alpha aka. Director Alpha http://ykk.misago.org/Volume9/80 ff. There *is* some connection between them.
- Rainer
Sunday, March 14, 2004
"But it's not written in stone that all prototypes have to be of similar appearance".
Very true, but http://ykk.misago.org/Volume1/52 & 53 suggests that the Misago at least predates _any_ A7 type, even Director Alpha. Although, I must admit that because dates can be a bit vague in YKK it's not very substantial evidence and (I just remembered) there is a very misago-like colour picture of Director Alpha in volume 1 http://ykk.misago.org/Volume1/1
However, we could use the variable prototype theory to strengthen the argument that Ayase is a Robot. The biggest 'against' is that Ayase's hair grows, which we know for a fact that the A7 type's hair doesn't (grow).
It could be suggested that it was tested on Ayase and deemed too expensive a feature, or that it was considered unnecessary for the more common M3 model.
I like to think that Maruko is an M2. I don't think it's ever stated if she is an M3, and she seems very similar (in some ways at least) to Alpha. That's a pure stab-in-the-dark guess though. :P
- Leodhais
Monday, March 15, 2004
>>
Very true, but http://ykk.misago.org/Volume1/52 & 53 suggests that the Misago at least predates _any_ A7 type, even Director Alpha.
Although, I must admit that because dates can be a bit vague in YKK it's not very substantial evidence and (I just remembered) there is a very misago-like colour picture of Director Alpha in volume 1 http://ykk.misago.org/Volume1/1
<<
Right - Sensei said that Director Alpha predated the A7M2 prototypes by some years. Given Sensei's age their encounter was some 40-50 years ago - with the A7M2 types coming in maybe 5-10 years later. The even later mass production of the A7M3 type probably made the broader public aware of robots living among them. A lone earlier prototype, be it an A7M1 or even an A6 (Misago might be a "lucky" survivor) could be "decads older than robots" in public perception - remember it's hearsay Alpha was told from her owner.
>>
However, we could use the variable prototype theory to strengthen the argument that Ayase is a Robot. The biggest 'against' is that Ayase's hair grows, which we know for a fact that the A7 type's hair doesn't (grow).
It could be suggested that it was tested on Ayase and deemed too expensive a feature, or that it was considered unnecessary for the more common M3 model.
Reality check: Growing hair (and regrowing skin, for that matter) would be a necessity anyway, or Alpha and her siblings would look pretty weathered by now:p
But giving the male ones facial hair and condemn them to daily shaving would be rather cruel:-D
>>
I like to think that Maruko is an M2. I don't think it's ever stated if she is an M3, and she seems very similar (in some ways at least) to Alpha. That's a pure stab-in-the-dark guess though. :P
Indeed;-)
- Rainer
Monday, March 15, 2004
Howdy,
>I like to think that Maruko is an M2. I don't think it's ever stated if she is an M3, and she seems very similar (in some ways at least) to Alpha.
Maruko is a A7M3, as we are told by this chapter title.
http://ykk.misago.org/Afternoon2003/17
>Reality check: Growing hair (and regrowing skin, for that matter) would be a necessity anyway, or Alpha and her siblings would look pretty weathered by now:p
Alpha doesn't regrow her hair. When she was struck by lightning, her hair was burned, and Sensei *replaced* her hair.
http://ykk.misago.org/Volume1/93
This is why the sticking point of Ayase's beard is the biggest strike against him being a robot.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Monday, March 15, 2004
>>
Alpha doesn't regrow her hair. When she was struck by lightning, her hair was burned, and Sensei *replaced* her hair.
<<
Yes, I'm aware of that - I forgot the sarcasm tags. The IMHO obvious need for regrowing capacity of the robot's outer hull was deliberately left out by the author, as was the need for regular maintainnance and an oil change:p
>>
This is why the sticking point of Ayase's beard is the biggest strike against him being a robot.
<<
ACK
- Rainer
Monday, March 15, 2004
"Maruko is a A7M3, as we are told by this chapter title. "
Whoops, I knew I'd missed it somewhere. :)
"Growing hair (and regrowing skin, for that matter) would be a necessity anyway, or Alpha and her siblings would look pretty weathered by now:p"
True enough for skin, but Ashinano has changed the hairstyles (and lengths) of most of the younger characters at least (although in Takahiro's case it's hard to tell) a couple of times, but in all this time none of the robots hair has ever changed. Ah... but it could just be Artistic license. :P
- Leodhais
Monday, March 15, 2004
Are the only evidences of non-growing hair the same hairstyles and sensei's replacing her hair?
Perhaps the hairstyles would stay the same because the robots don't make personality changes much, and perhaps Alpha's scalp was too damaged by the lightning to regrow correctly. It would see that if the hair didn't grow it would eventually change color due to sun and the environment.
-k
- Kempis Curious
Monday, March 15, 2004
Howdy,
>Are the only evidences of non-growing hair the same hairstyles and sensei's replacing her hair?
Pretty much. But remember, YKK is a series that is pretty light on evidence for almost all it's important questions.
"...absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. -- Carl Sagan"
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Monday, March 15, 2004
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