>>321
Wait, why should l50 links be indexed/cached? IMO the only links that should be on Google at all are main pages and "entire thread" links.

Some final points (I hope) before the whole thing is wrapped up:

• The CSS in the All threads page is unsightly. Is there a way to properly wrap the outer color border(s) around the table of threads?

• I still say that the "Navigation: " text is extraneous when people can clearly see what the links do. Also still partitioning for 0ch-style error pages (with displayed user host and all).

• Now that we do have filesize indicators in the backlog page of mode_message, do you still find it useless to have the red bold filesizes near the bottom of thread subpages?

• Does mode_message now work in PAGE_GENERATION => 'paged'?

• Idea: forced anonymous/sage/ID/fusianasan by IP/thread/board/whole site (some of these combinations already exist, I know)?

• Finally, I imagine that the permasage/close/delete functions in kareha.pl will be easily interchangeable among the conditions in post_stuff(). Can you confirm this?

> What about a(n) (optional) preview page?

I've been considering that, but it's a goddamn pain to implement. It'd be pretty useful, though. Also, it could include the spell checker someone requested way back at the beginning of time.

>>231 What would it do?

I found this:

fusianasan【ふしあなさん】［名・自ｽﾙ］
２ちゃんねるに書き込みする際に名前欄に「fusianasan」の文字列を入力すると、その書き込みをした人のリモートホストのＩＰアドレスがさらされるようになっている。
本来は「（固定ハンドル)@fusianasan」などとして、まだキャップを取得していない固定ハンドルが自らＩＰをさらすことで騙りを防ぐためのシステムである。
が、裏２ちゃん関係のコピペが横行するに至って、一時期うっかりＩＰをさらしてしまう。
エロな人間が続出し、fusianasan廃止要望まで唱えられるに至った(当然却下されたが)。
ＩＰをさらすことだけによる危険は、そのＩＰから手元で使用中のコンピュータを一意に特定でき
（ex：グローバルＩＰによる常時接続）、かつプロキシ・サーバー、ファイヤーウォールなどの防御策を怠っている場合にしか及ばないので、
fusianasanに引っかかったからといって実はそこまで神経質になることもなかったりする。
……過去にＩＰから仕事中に政府機関から２ちゃんねるにつないで裏２ちゃんに入ろうとしていた愚か者が釣れてさらされたという事例はあるが。
なお、現在では一部の板でデフォルトの名無しさん（名前欄未記入時の名前）が「fusianasanさん」などfusianasanを含む名前となっている場合がある。
また、串の性能を試すために敢えて裏２ちゃんに引っかかっていると思われる強者もちらほら見受けられる。

類義語：mokorikomo
参照：裏２ちゃん、キャップ

>>196
Actually, a solution to >> links with static pages is to simply make them reference a certain point on a certain page number for that thread (ie, http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/1129153864/index2.html#197).

> More information on the all threads page, date of the last post? file size?

That might be somewhat useful, I suppose. I'll have a look at it.

> A quote button that puts >>n and puts the post prefixed by > in the reply box

There's already a way to put in >>n. However, quoting an entire post is seldom something you want to do anyway, so I don't think that's worth cluttering up the page with a million buttons for.

> Different secret strings for different functions (e.g. one for ID generation and one for secure tripcodes)

Most admins probably don't get point of the secret string anyway, and asking them to put in several is just too annoying. In retrospect, I'd like to add a second layer of hashing to these, but that'd mean breaking secure trips AGAIN.

> A trigger for turning wakabamark off and one for forcing a monospace font

I've been trying to work out a more elegant solution for this.

> They can modify it an claim copyright on their modifications, at least as long as they're significant enough, but that doesn't affect existing works in the public domain.

Devil's advocate: What if they make significant changes you would want to add yourself? before you do? Can they then tell you to stop if they license their work first?

huh?

(Lots of stuff in here, click "whole post"!)

> How about listing what dmpk2k or you have done already?

Truth be told, I haven't even looked over his contributions yet. I'm doing some work on Kareha first. He did bandwidth load balancing for Wakaba across several servers, and image file archiving, at least. Plus some proxy checking and other goodies.

> Split threads and posts into separate tables. You're repeating the lasthit and parent column over and over.

Bad idea. Adds a lot of code complexity without adding any new functionality. The current solution is simple and robust.

> Automatic closing and moving of threads that do not get any activity in a certain timeframe (based on average activity frequency of the board)

This is nearly impossible to get right, and I don't think I'm going to try unless someone can think up a reliable algorithm that uses the data that is availble (not much).

> Reintroduction of "Marked for deletion (old)" (it's just handy to have that)

I tried several times, and concluded it wasn't worth the code and database overhead it would take. This feature is relatively easy to implement for Futaba-style post number limited boards (and Futaba implements it really stupidly), but it gets tricky when you have different deletion modes and want to do it right.

> Prune-limit mode that is defined by number of files or size sum of files on a board

Size limit is already implemented. I might add file limit, but I'm not sure it's all that useful, when you already have the size limit.

The rest, I agree with, and I will try to get most of it done. I'm sure there's some more stuff hidden in old threads, though!

Oh:

> Getting back to inconsequential nitpicking: I find the "___ image replies omitted" phrase to be a bit redundant, and for one it confuses me as to whether or not those image replies are separate from text-only replies. How about simply calling it "images"?

Yes, that's a great idea, which is why I've always done just that. You're thinking of 4chan.

Maybe. I just picked something at random.

>>189

>The effect would be miniscule in comparison to the huge increase in bandwidth that would result from sending the entire static thread pages.

How about a config.pl parameter to split up thread subpages into X posts per page? The navigation links already use 100 posts per page for practically everything except "Last 50 posts".

Hmm, I just remembered: >> links would not work at all with static pages. Not good.

>Why? Even if 0ch or Futaba implemented secure tripcodes, you wouldn't get the same secure tripcode there as on another board. That's the nature of the security.

Right, I guess it was dumb to mention 0ch/Futaba in the first place. The point is, as you said yourself, tripcodes are a gimmick, and if someone wants to maintain a persistent identity across multiple boards and sites (ie, everyone here with a tripcode), they have no choice but to use ordinary tripcodes. Secure tripcodes are useless because they limit your identity to a single board, supposing each board/site's cipher key is different -- which it should be, since that's the point of having a secure tripcode in the first place. No one should be so paranoid about a tripcode that they'd need to have a different one per board/site.

>Not without doing a lot of changes throughout the code, and not without breaking current installations.

Shouldn't we sacrifice some backwards compatibility for a more robust and scalable design? It might even be possible to provide an upgrade.pl for old threads.

>>193

>You could only trigger the functions in a specific format, say...

That's a cool idea, though for now it would have to be left alone if we want to keep Kareha compatible with 2ch/Futaba conventions.

>>195
Exactly. The methods and the effects of saging a thread are separate subjects.

P.S. I recently discovered "rXX-XX" for threads in /soc/. How exactly does this work? From the sound of it, it's supposed to randomize the post order, but when I hit refresh I get the same order.

>>108
I don't think that restricting specific users' posting priviliges is useful in any way except restricting them from posting.

>>108,113
"fusianasan" is for when a user wants to prove that he is posting from a certain place (like a school, a company's network or a military base).

>>112
A keyboard shortcut for "reply" in Kareha or "submit" in Wakaba would be nice to have.

> The File field is almost never there.

...especially not when I've added a bug that makes it disappear. Where the hell did it go?

I found this:

fusianasan【ふしあなさん】［名・自ｽﾙ］
２ちゃんねるに書き込みする際に名前欄に「fusianasan」の文字列を入力すると、その書き込みをした人のリモートホストのＩＰアドレスがさらされるようになっている。
本来は「（固定ハンドル)@fusianasan」などとして、まだキャップを取得していない固定ハンドルが自らＩＰをさらすことで騙りを防ぐためのシステムである。
が、裏２ちゃん関係のコピペが横行するに至って、一時期うっかりＩＰをさらしてしまう。
エロな人間が続出し、fusianasan廃止要望まで唱えられるに至った(当然却下されたが)。
ＩＰをさらすことだけによる危険は、そのＩＰから手元で使用中のコンピュータを一意に特定でき
（ex：グローバルＩＰによる常時接続）、かつプロキシ・サーバー、ファイヤーウォールなどの防御策を怠っている場合にしか及ばないので、
fusianasanに引っかかったからといって実はそこまで神経質になることもなかったりする。
……過去にＩＰから仕事中に政府機関から２ちゃんねるにつないで裏２ちゃんに入ろうとしていた愚か者が釣れてさらされたという事例はあるが。
なお、現在では一部の板でデフォルトの名無しさん（名前欄未記入時の名前）が「fusianasanさん」などfusianasanを含む名前となっている場合がある。
また、串の性能を試すために敢えて裏２ちゃんに引っかかっていると思われる強者もちらほら見受けられる。

類義語：mokorikomo
参照：裏２ちゃん、キャップ

Anyway, test with |

> More information on the all threads page, date of the last post? file size?

That might be somewhat useful, I suppose. I'll have a look at it.

> A quote button that puts >>n and puts the post prefixed by > in the reply box

There's already a way to put in >>n. However, quoting an entire post is seldom something you want to do anyway, so I don't think that's worth cluttering up the page with a million buttons for.

> Different secret strings for different functions (e.g. one for ID generation and one for secure tripcodes)

Most admins probably don't get point of the secret string anyway, and asking them to put in several is just too annoying. In retrospect, I'd like to add a second layer of hashing to these, but that'd mean breaking secure trips AGAIN.

> A trigger for turning wakabamark off and one for forcing a monospace font

I've been trying to work out a more elegant solution for this.

> Did you ditch customizable capcodes?

No, I removed the dumbass capcode I put in as a demonstration, because I don't like capcodes.

> Using "◆" as the default tripkey character.

I dunno, I always thought that was a kind of big and annoying symbol. Especially when it's so close visually to the question-mark-in-diamond marker some fonts use for characters they don't support.

> How about placing the Formatting menu to the left or right of the "File: " field? I'd also like to see WakabaMark changed to its real name (Markdown).

The File field is almost never there. Also, WakabaMark is similar to, but not the same as Markdown. There are significant differences that make them incompatible (since Markdown is designed to be used when you know you're using it, but WakabaMark tries as best as it can to not do unexpected things if you don't know about it). I might add optional support for real Markdown at some point.

> In Pseud0ch, post numbers should be the same size/format as the rest of the header text

I tried, and it looked much worse than the current solution. Besides, post numbers in Kareha and 0ch aren't the same, since they're clickable here.

> PS. What's "Raw HTML"?

Pretty useless. I'll probably remove it. It's HTML input without turning newlines into <br/>.

> Oh, and "AA mode" should be changed to "Text art mode"

Maybe just "Text art"... hmm.

This my just be me, but I'd like a link to the entire thread in karaha at the top of threads.

> More information on the all threads page [...] file size?

If (optional) closing on filesize should be implemented, this would probably be a good idea.

Plus if you were to allow those tags in HTML, you should do the same for WakabaMark (which actually takes its cue from Markdown, so I don't see why it has a different name).

Also, I forgot to mention: fusianasan works now! Put it in as your name to test it!

>>161

>3) was about a string to trigger ID:Heaven, not a constant for the Heaven part (which is already configurable)

That's what I was referring to also in >>154 (S_NOID being the theoretical trigger string for ID:Heaven).

Concerning localization: there are certain compromises with input triggers that must be made in order to maintain interoperability with Japanese users coming from 2ch/Futaba. They're not going to care about a system where "sage" and "fusianasan" (in Roman too I'm guessing, can someone confirm this?) don't work in their respective fields. In effect, 2ch set a standard of usability that we need to follow if we want to build a bridge between both communities.

On the flipside, I think there should also be a secondary set of trigger strings that would be more coherent to Western users and universal to all Western boards. Making them configurable from site to site is really dumb, because it would create an unthinkable usability mess. With Shiichan's death, Kareha stands unrivaled, and setting these strings in stone would ingrain them in the culture like "sage" and "fusianasan" have been in Japan. Thinking very optimistically, if a Western BBS site should grow into something large enough for 2channers to strongly take notice of, they would pick up on these triggers and possibly make their own concessions to implement them in 0ch.

What they should be is yet to be determined. Unfortunately, they'll probably have to be pretty dull in comparison to the witty botanical references and word puns in 2ch and Futaba.

>>163

>I don't think so, not in these cases. What's the alternative? Having a different field for fusianasan, a new checkbox for sage, etc.? That's just cluttering up the interface.

Then why not simply boil it all down to the comment field, with trigger strings for inputting the name, e-mail, sage, ID:Heaven, and fusianasan? You can get a lot more minimal with the current interface.

>Huh?

He meant saging a thread just because a part of the actual e-mail address contains the word "sage."

(Lots of stuff in here, click "whole post"!)

> How about listing what dmpk2k or you have done already?

Truth be told, I haven't even looked over his contributions yet. I'm doing some work on Kareha first. He did bandwidth load balancing for Wakaba across several servers, and image file archiving, at least. Plus some proxy checking and other goodies.

> Split threads and posts into separate tables. You're repeating the lasthit and parent column over and over.

Bad idea. Adds a lot of code complexity without adding any new functionality. The current solution is simple and robust.

> Automatic closing and moving of threads that do not get any activity in a certain timeframe (based on average activity frequency of the board)

This is nearly impossible to get right, and I don't think I'm going to try unless someone can think up a reliable algorithm that uses the data that is availble (not much).

> Reintroduction of "Marked for deletion (old)" (it's just handy to have that)

I tried several times, and concluded it wasn't worth the code and database overhead it would take. This feature is relatively easy to implement for Futaba-style post number limited boards (and Futaba implements it really stupidly), but it gets tricky when you have different deletion modes and want to do it right.

> Prune-limit mode that is defined by number of files or size sum of files on a board

Size limit is already implemented. I might add file limit, but I'm not sure it's all that useful, when you already have the size limit.

The rest, I agree with, and I will try to get most of it done. I'm sure there's some more stuff hidden in old threads, though!

>>336
IMO minimalist web applications like Kareha should only focus on core content/functionality and leave the inconsequential presentation options up to browser extensions so that each user can tweak them to his whim. That's why I was pushing to offload the CSS selector to an extension.

>>337
Here's a better example, I think. Even if we can't remove the excessive side borders, is there a way to at least have rounded corners?

On formatting options: I think >>338 fails to understand that leaving the formatting options up to each individual user is a good thing by all means. Besides, they are absolutely necessary to the interface and core functionality, just like the Name and URL fields are. Preview functionality, on the other hand, should be implemented in an extension.

I think the issue that people have with the formatting options is that we don't have a Japanese counterpart to blindly model it after. Since we're going at this on our own, nobody is quite sure how it should be done. I'd like to see how it turns out on mode_image (if you feel the need to include it at all). :)

>>89

>But the body text is even more important, and that goes at the bottom. So I dunno.

Yeah, I considered this too. I'm mainly suggesting for the sake of convention.

We definitely don't need a separate page for creating new threads (I get bad memories of Shiichan), mainly because it's inconvenient and requires a whole other page for something that really shouldn't. The fact that it'd be at the bottom of the board page already detracts bad posters with itchy trigger fingers. I think most of us have an "End" key on our keyboards, so we don't really have to scroll all the way down anyway. :) Really, the only issue I have with moving the post box to the bottom is that it ruins my personal visualization of new threads falling on top of the "stack of threads" and replies emerging from below the "stack of replies".

In reference to >>90, there's something I see on every 2ch board that is a lot less prevalent in Western counterparts (barring certain 4-ch boards): a rules/disclaimer block at the top, above the thread-list, with links to a newbie guide, site FAQ, and the like. Yes, it may be an annoyance to veterans, but being at the very top means it's most visible to newbies. That way, we don't get a constant influx of people wondering whether or not they need to fill in the Name and Link fields and what the hell sage and tripcodes are.

> It would eliminate the concept of sageing as a protest entirely.

Except that nobody knows what's going on back-end.

I like the idea though.

Additionally, I'd like WakabaMark to be fixed somehow.
I don't know how, though. You know my resentments.

Finally, thanks for your fine work throughout all this time.
It is appreciated!

huh?

Oh yeah, regarding the CSS selector: HTML dropdowns aren't styleable, and will look like shit. I'll look into using some other trickery for that, though.