>>89

>But the body text is even more important, and that goes at the bottom. So I dunno.

Yeah, I considered this too. I'm mainly suggesting for the sake of convention.

We definitely don't need a separate page for creating new threads (I get bad memories of Shiichan), mainly because it's inconvenient and requires a whole other page for something that really shouldn't. The fact that it'd be at the bottom of the board page already detracts bad posters with itchy trigger fingers. I think most of us have an "End" key on our keyboards, so we don't really have to scroll all the way down anyway. :) Really, the only issue I have with moving the post box to the bottom is that it ruins my personal visualization of new threads falling on top of the "stack of threads" and replies emerging from below the "stack of replies".

In reference to >>90, there's something I see on every 2ch board that is a lot less prevalent in Western counterparts (barring certain 4-ch boards): a rules/disclaimer block at the top, above the thread-list, with links to a newbie guide, site FAQ, and the like. Yes, it may be an annoyance to veterans, but being at the very top means it's most visible to newbies. That way, we don't get a constant influx of people wondering whether or not they need to fill in the Name and Link fields and what the hell sage and tripcodes are.

>>63
Nevermind, the issues seem to have resolved themselves within the hour of the new version being uploaded.

More stuff:

To more closely resemble the 2ch look, how about prefixing thread title headers in the main board page with a 【position:postcount】thingie?

And as suggested before, the navigation links on the bottom of individual thread pages should include "Previous 100" (ie, all posts before the first post in the URL) and "Next 100" (ie, all posts after the last post in the URL). Of course, this could get screwy if you're using reverse order and out-of-order posts in the URL, so I dunno how well it could be implemented.

The "First 100" link should also be removed from the bottom of individual thread pages, and there should be a link to to thread-list included below the reply box of each previewed thread on the front page.

Bonus:

Change "Del" links to widget buttons.

In order for the CSS selector not to take over the entire header, how about turning it into a drop-down menu? The same could be done with the Admin functions (appearing only after one correctly inputs the password), placing it on the right side of the board and thread title headers (this would also allow admins the convenience of deleting and permasaging threads from the front-page).

and would something like this work (given that all boards share the same root directory)?

>>>>sup/1129153864/1-100
>>>1129153864/1-100

P.S. When you mentioned serving dynamic pages in >>46, were you referring to individual thread pages? As I mentioned before, it'd be nice to make the front page as dynamic and flexible as thread pages when it comes to viewing options (via PATH_INFO).

>>140

So, does that mean you approve of removing the style selector on subpages? I just woke up and I'm confused.

Anyway, Safari doesn't, as far as I know, let you pick stylesheets. And IE obviously doesn't. Also, not even Firefox will actually remember your choice, making the ability completely useless anyway, unless coupled with Javascript on the page to save the setting.

> The Futaba template is missing the "No File" checkbox next to the File field in the Post New Thread area.

That's because Kareha has no "No File" check in the first place, and I'm not sure I want to add code just for that (since it'd have to be optional anyway).

I notice some weirdness with the CSS changes sometimes. For example, the first post on a -100 page will sometimes have the first character of the post enlarged. >>2 looks something like
\
/>2 until it is mouse-overed or you change the CSS, but then it goes back to large again on refresh. Also can happen with lowercase letters. Some of the field labels also change size from refreshing in a certain CSS versus just switching to it.

>It's all a design & layout question. I'd like to have the interface reduced to what is absolutely neccessary, esp. since I do not think many people really want to even bother or bother very often with the whole markup question.

Why have a name field or link field? For the majority of posts they are not used, or only used for sage. As stated earlier, they are not even needed for the bare minimum of usage. You want to prove it is you posting? Use a gpg signature or something and a third-party extension, it is just fluff that is not needed at all!

I'm all for having a system that is easy to modify to the end-user's wants and needs. However, there are going to be plenty of users that are not hardcore enough to make or use such options. Therefore, the normal functionality should be pretty usable.

People seem to pop-up whenever something that would change the interface to shout it down. They seem to fear any change and normally give no reason other than it would clutter things up or some nonsense. Does the CSS selector -really- get in your way? It is probably a whole ten pixels! Is having the More options thing really ruining your experience, or are you just against it on some principle? Personally, I would move it below the comment text-area or something, as now the tab amounts between the main fields has changed.

http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1099697376/101-101
(First "Next 100" link) does not include >>1 in that thread

There's also some weird bug where the entire browser windowd content goes black, dunno what that is about...

>>145

>does that mean you approve of removing the style selector on subpages?

I was referring to the entire board, but as you later explained, it seems it can never be removed completely. Though removing it from subpages wouldn't be a bad idea I guess.

>Kareha has no "No File" check in the first place

That's what I thought, but then why is it in the Reply pages?

Other: Have you considered multi-page links with intervals of 100 posts at the top of subpages (ie, 1-, 101-, 201-)? Red, bold thread filesizes displayed near the bottom of subpages?

Something else to consider: separating the board description/rules template from the board- or site-wide announcements. Check out http://0ch.mine.nu/test/read.cgi/jikken/1120050851 to see what I mean.

The problem reported in >>143 is still present.

Thanks for the links at the top. Previously, I had to search for those threads over and over again if I wanted to find them.

>>108
I don't think that restricting specific users' posting priviliges is useful in any way except restricting them from posting.

>>108,113
"fusianasan" is for when a user wants to prove that he is posting from a certain place (like a school, a company's network or a military base).

>>112
A keyboard shortcut for "reply" in Kareha or "submit" in Wakaba would be nice to have.

>>324
I've heard they use it on a per-IP basis for troublesome posters on 2ch. It could also discourage people from being jisakujien (supposing ID is disabled) or posting in a certain thread unless they're totally willing to have their host revealed.

> Red, bold thread filesizes displayed near the bottom of subpages?

I support this, especially if thread-closing by filesize should be implemented.

> Can't this be somewhere else but the post form?

No, because that would be immensely useless and annoying, because nobody would know it's there, and even if they did, they'd have to go somewhere else every time they wanted to post something using a different markup.

Another topic: since dynamic pages eat up CPU in order to rebuild pages according to URL parameters, what would be the likelihood of the current dynamic thread subpages having a significantly adverse effect in this aspect if a board were to grow to 2ch-sized proportions? Should there be a consideration to make these pages as static as the front page?

Also, let's put out a partition to kill secure tripcodes (unless they originated from 0ch/Futaba) and captcha (until we find a way to implement similar functionality without requiring it in the form of a GIF/PNG image), and add functionality for multiple uploads in one post.

And is there any practical way that Kareha can be modified to run multiple (even nested) boards in a single installation?

>>123

Noted. I've been struggling with that same problem for naming things internally in the code, and obviously it distracted me from noticing the same problem in the GUI.

>>226
(´・ω・`）

>>63
Nevermind, the issues seem to have resolved themselves within the hour of the new version being uploaded.

More stuff:

To more closely resemble the 2ch look, how about prefixing thread title headers in the main board page with a 【position:postcount】thingie?

And as suggested before, the navigation links on the bottom of individual thread pages should include "Previous 100" (ie, all posts before the first post in the URL) and "Next 100" (ie, all posts after the last post in the URL). Of course, this could get screwy if you're using reverse order and out-of-order posts in the URL, so I dunno how well it could be implemented.

The "First 100" link should also be removed from the bottom of individual thread pages, and there should be a link to to thread-list included below the reply box of each previewed thread on the front page.

Bonus:

Change "Del" links to widget buttons.

In order for the CSS selector not to take over the entire header, how about turning it into a drop-down menu? The same could be done with the Admin functions (appearing only after one correctly inputs the password), placing it on the right side of the board and thread title headers (this would also allow admins the convenience of deleting and permasaging threads from the front-page).

and would something like this work (given that all boards share the same root directory)?

>>>>sup/1129153864/1-100
>>>1129153864/1-100

P.S. When you mentioned serving dynamic pages in >>46, were you referring to individual thread pages? As I mentioned before, it'd be nice to make the front page as dynamic and flexible as thread pages when it comes to viewing options (via PATH_INFO).

>>178
There will always be pranksters around. This is probably a good example on what matters to trust tripcoders more than anonymous contributors.

Trivia: Here is a list of 2ch kopipe to fool people into using fusianasan:
http://ansitu.xrea.jp/guidance/?fusianasan

And this:

だってよ。

231 ：ひろゆき ◆3SHRUNYAXA ＠どうやら管理人 ★：04/02/05 14:13 ID:???
ハンマー投げゲーム機能つけてみました。
名前の欄に『murofusianasan』と書き込めば
【６０ｍ】とか【７５ｍ】とか記録が出ます。
数値はランダムで０～１００くらいまでありますよ。。。
お暇なら遊んでください。

> You still end up with no way to link the fusianasan post with the name/trip one without IDs enabled (unless the ID method is known and no secret data is used).

You'd figure that people who know what fusianasan is will also know how to trigger IDs.

> You spelled it fusiansan once.

So I misspelled one word once.

Sue me!

> Also, how is Kahera unrivaled when there are still large sites that are not running it? Shiichan is still on world4ch, Thorn on parts of wakachan for example.

Neither world4ch nor Pichan are by any means "large". Also, yes, as Shii said, their webmasters are stubborn.

>>177

> It's not worth comparing until it doesn't break regularly.

The only problem with it is that it doesn't do paranoid file writes. The fact that the entire server occasionally breaks isn't related to how broken the script itself is.

PS: I just tested fusianasan + tripcode on 2ch, it works fine.

All right, code updated again. This time, some experimenting! I've implemented a tentative system for changing markup types. This needs a bunch of testing, of course, so here's the test thread link once again: http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1099697376/

Thoughts and comments are welcome. I'm still trying to figure out how exactly to do this.

There's a bunch of other changes and fixes too, so mention if anything breaks, as usual. Also, shift-reload!

I found this:

fusianasan【ふしあなさん】［名・自ｽﾙ］
２ちゃんねるに書き込みする際に名前欄に「fusianasan」の文字列を入力すると、その書き込みをした人のリモートホストのＩＰアドレスがさらされるようになっている。
本来は「（固定ハンドル)@fusianasan」などとして、まだキャップを取得していない固定ハンドルが自らＩＰをさらすことで騙りを防ぐためのシステムである。
が、裏２ちゃん関係のコピペが横行するに至って、一時期うっかりＩＰをさらしてしまう。
エロな人間が続出し、fusianasan廃止要望まで唱えられるに至った(当然却下されたが)。
ＩＰをさらすことだけによる危険は、そのＩＰから手元で使用中のコンピュータを一意に特定でき
（ex：グローバルＩＰによる常時接続）、かつプロキシ・サーバー、ファイヤーウォールなどの防御策を怠っている場合にしか及ばないので、
fusianasanに引っかかったからといって実はそこまで神経質になることもなかったりする。
……過去にＩＰから仕事中に政府機関から２ちゃんねるにつないで裏２ちゃんに入ろうとしていた愚か者が釣れてさらされたという事例はあるが。
なお、現在では一部の板でデフォルトの名無しさん（名前欄未記入時の名前）が「fusianasanさん」などfusianasanを含む名前となっている場合がある。
また、串の性能を試すために敢えて裏２ちゃんに引っかかっていると思われる強者もちらほら見受けられる。

類義語：mokorikomo
参照：裏２ちゃん、キャップ

I'll sign that partition for a separate admin script and XHTML interface (one that includes the banning, board nuking, and spamlist-changing functions in Wakaba).

How about adding flexibility to the DELETE_FIRST option in config.pl, using booleans to define when to keep or remove a thread (including AND/OR/NOT arguments)?

Also, options for both automated permasaging and pruning by postcount, creation date/time, and board position (all configurable in config.pl of course).

Some other layout points:

• The Title field should go above the Name and Link fields in 2ch mode.

• 2ch's "new thread" post box is at the bottom of the main page. From every practical standpoint, the current solution in Kareha is a lot more convenient, but you may want to go over that just in case.

• Futaba now uses "..." instead of ">>>" to prefix repy blocks.

> 2channel does not do this either by default. It can make browsing a bit more convenient (and I suspect dedicated 2channel browsers to insert & read these in some kind of standardized way) but I don't think that's reason enough to impose it on users by default.

whoops, I misread "postcount" as "posticon". Nevermind!

>>137
I also noticed that you removed the CSS selector in individual thread views. Personally, it seems both the Admin options and Style selector are a bit of a hindrance to the overall layout. Don't get me wrong -- I think the drop-in Style capability is fantastic-- but it just doesn't seem to play nice with the current 2ch page design.

The thing is, don't most or all major browsers these days allow users to change CSS styles from within the application itself? I know Firefox does, at least. Maybe the selector isn't really necessary.

Suggestion / Request

Making "More options..." an option in the configs.

Seems sensible, when you already have the ability to turn off WakabaMark as a board admin. Also, it will make me stop whining (a bit).