What does Thorn have to do with Kareha? Thorn's counterpart is Wakaba.

Anyway, the version of Shiichan on world4ch is bust. It's not a case of feature versus feature here, Shiichan simply doesn't work. It's not worth comparing until it doesn't break regularly.

If Shii were still working on it might be different, but Shiichan is effectively a dead project which incidentally has a closed and broken version working on world4ch.

>>336
IMO minimalist web applications like Kareha should only focus on core content/functionality and leave the inconsequential presentation options up to browser extensions so that each user can tweak them to his whim. That's why I was pushing to offload the CSS selector to an extension.

>>337
Here's a better example, I think. Even if we can't remove the excessive side borders, is there a way to at least have rounded corners?

On formatting options: I think >>338 fails to understand that leaving the formatting options up to each individual user is a good thing by all means. Besides, they are absolutely necessary to the interface and core functionality, just like the Name and URL fields are. Preview functionality, on the other hand, should be implemented in an extension.

I think the issue that people have with the formatting options is that we don't have a Japanese counterpart to blindly model it after. Since we're going at this on our own, nobody is quite sure how it should be done. I'd like to see how it turns out on mode_image (if you feel the need to include it at all). :)

>>16

Yes, it's throwing Javascript errors for me if I use that character. Gonna look into that some more.

"page top" is better imho

>>48-50
First of all, I don't believe it would make bumps more valuable in any way. People bump threads all the time with worthless replies since most don't even know what "sage" is or means or what it is good for. They will simply continue to do this, no matter whether the sage function is changed in this way.

Even at this stage, years after its introduction to a major western userbase, people are still clueless about the main basic functions of image- and discussionboards in the Futaba/0ch style. There are some signs of improvement, but they are rare.
I doubt people would be willing or eager to learn a new, different behaviour at this point in time.

The only real change is what >>50 points out (though I want to mention that even that point is mostly misunderstood: if people want to protest against a certain thread, they should post as many sage posts as it needs to get permasaged (although it's arguably counterproductive, considering the default prune behaviour of imgboards). If threads are still bumpable and trolls find that they have been flamed with a sage, they will just bump it once more). And I don't think that's enough to justify a pretty major function change.

> Also, I'd like to ask exactly how Kareha does automatically generates deletion passwords. I'm guessing it's similar if not identical to how it creates ID session codes with a user's IP.

Actually, no, the Javascript just strings some random numbers and letters together.

> Because it's one of the two requirements for creating a new thread, and it's a lot more important to have a well-defined topic than to fill in your name.

But the body text is even more important, and that goes at the bottom. So I dunno.

>It's more convenient if you want to start a new thread, but for those who don't it's one more form to have to scroll by.

Would it maybe make sense to make a separate thread creation page?

/-100 shows the first post two times.

I was browsing through some old threads and now they're all gone. :(

(Lots of stuff in here, click "whole post"!)

> How about listing what dmpk2k or you have done already?

Truth be told, I haven't even looked over his contributions yet. I'm doing some work on Kareha first. He did bandwidth load balancing for Wakaba across several servers, and image file archiving, at least. Plus some proxy checking and other goodies.

> Split threads and posts into separate tables. You're repeating the lasthit and parent column over and over.

Bad idea. Adds a lot of code complexity without adding any new functionality. The current solution is simple and robust.

> Automatic closing and moving of threads that do not get any activity in a certain timeframe (based on average activity frequency of the board)

This is nearly impossible to get right, and I don't think I'm going to try unless someone can think up a reliable algorithm that uses the data that is availble (not much).

> Reintroduction of "Marked for deletion (old)" (it's just handy to have that)

I tried several times, and concluded it wasn't worth the code and database overhead it would take. This feature is relatively easy to implement for Futaba-style post number limited boards (and Futaba implements it really stupidly), but it gets tricky when you have different deletion modes and want to do it right.

> Prune-limit mode that is defined by number of files or size sum of files on a board

Size limit is already implemented. I might add file limit, but I'm not sure it's all that useful, when you already have the size limit.

The rest, I agree with, and I will try to get most of it done. I'm sure there's some more stuff hidden in old threads, though!

So, I made the All threads page a lot fancier. Might need some shift-reloading to get the proper CSS.

Is this about done, besides the admin bit? I'm getting a bit tired and distractions are looming to the left and right.

A 1001th post would be a bother.

> metadata

Not sure, that would require a database redesign and I don't want to force people with a current install to do that. Also, it seems something like that would work better for a whole new script, properly designed around the idea.

> config.pl parameter for a generic image that takes the place of a deleted image (ie, Hello Kitty)

Ah, good, been meaning to do, forgot about.

> Fine-grained banning options that let you choose whether or not the user is blocked from reading a board, posting to a board, or both. Another parameter defines the duration of his ban ('0' for permaban), and another defines a reason/message displayed when the user tries to access a board.

None of those seem useful to me, because I'm of the opinion that bans are to prevent abuse, not to punish users.

> Replace HTML error pages with dialog box equivalents using JavaScript.

Would require a bunch of hidden-iframing and such. I'd like to do a complete re-design full of javascript trickery, and this idea would fit better in such a context... That is to say, I'm lazy and the current version is robust, and I'm loathe to go around changing it, since it would introduce new problems.

> Kill user deletion. I can't see any case for when it'd have constructive uses.

On image boards, it has a very definite use - people do fuck up and post in the wrong thread, or create new threads. It's better if they can clean up after themselves. In Kareha, you can already disable deletion.

> Conversion to mod_perl?

As far as I know, it should work in mod_perl already, modulo some prototype bugs. I'll try to get those fixed.

> The standalone thumbnailer project is a great idea too. As a suggestion, how about adding functionality to also read and thumbnail document files like TXT, PDF, and DOC?

That would require a LOT of code, especially when you don't want external dependencies, so it's a bit iffy.

> but when I hit refresh I get the same order.

Browser cache. Try shift-refresh.

It doesn't take a specific range, just >>r30 for 30 random posts.

(Lots of stuff in here, click "whole post"!)

> How about listing what dmpk2k or you have done already?

Truth be told, I haven't even looked over his contributions yet. I'm doing some work on Kareha first. He did bandwidth load balancing for Wakaba across several servers, and image file archiving, at least. Plus some proxy checking and other goodies.

> Split threads and posts into separate tables. You're repeating the lasthit and parent column over and over.

Bad idea. Adds a lot of code complexity without adding any new functionality. The current solution is simple and robust.

> Automatic closing and moving of threads that do not get any activity in a certain timeframe (based on average activity frequency of the board)

This is nearly impossible to get right, and I don't think I'm going to try unless someone can think up a reliable algorithm that uses the data that is availble (not much).

> Reintroduction of "Marked for deletion (old)" (it's just handy to have that)

I tried several times, and concluded it wasn't worth the code and database overhead it would take. This feature is relatively easy to implement for Futaba-style post number limited boards (and Futaba implements it really stupidly), but it gets tricky when you have different deletion modes and want to do it right.

> Prune-limit mode that is defined by number of files or size sum of files on a board

Size limit is already implemented. I might add file limit, but I'm not sure it's all that useful, when you already have the size limit.

The rest, I agree with, and I will try to get most of it done. I'm sure there's some more stuff hidden in old threads, though!

> Pruning set to furthest-back instead of oldest.

I don't like this one. You just have to continually age a topic (until it hits the permasage treshold) in order for it so survive a long time. Normal users might have good reason to ignore simply it, though...

> Size limit instead of post number limit, maybe?

Sounds good.

> I was thinking of setting the default behaviour to never permasage or close threads.

I guess I don't have a strong opinion on this one. As long as the values will be customizable, I don't really care, I suppose.
Also: I just noticed that "¦" in tripcodes will work correctly but turn into "�U" through the cookie on /soc/ but not on the sandbox.

>Most admins probably don't get point of the secret string anyway, and asking them to put in several is just too annoying. In retrospect, I'd like to add a second layer of hashing to these, but that'd mean breaking secure trips AGAIN.

You could take the route that MrVB (I think?) did and generate the strings on first run? openssl, /dev/random, perl's random as last resort. In almost every case you are going to get a better random string than most people will supply, and if they want to change it they can. Or only have them generated if they are not supplied.

Honestly, when people care so much about anonymity they can put up with the changes required to ensure it.

fusianasan + sage test

> You mean requiring SQL software, or just making backwards-incompatible changes that would screw up old threads?

I mean, needing to alter the table that is already in the database. I don't want to try to do that any more than I have to, as it's pretty hard to get right in a database-independent manner.

> Are you only referring to flooding and spamming, or also trolls and flamewars?

Yes, only flooding and spamming. Trolling and flamewars are not a problem one should use banning to try and solve.

> Finally, out of curiosity: how much of the functionality in the .js file do you think could be properly implemented into a new or existing perl script?

Well, if you serve up dynamic pages, you can do the form-filling on the server, but that's about it. The rest is dynamic stuff.

the text

c < d

causes a <d> tag to be opened, which is not on the list, and therefore all the text until the next tag will be deleted. a better behavior in this case would be to just convert that < to &lt;. you even ought to do this for

a < b

too, despite the fact that b is a valid tag, because who the hell leaves the closing angle bracket out of their HTML tag?

creating the correct regexes for this is an exercise left to the reader.

I meant Remote host adress instead of IP.

durr hurr

> partition to kill secure tripcodes

signed

> add functionality for multiple uploads in one post.

I think this was decided against before.

How about adding a link to 2ch in footer.html called "2ch mode"?

> You still end up with no way to link the fusianasan post with the name/trip one without IDs enabled (unless the ID method is known and no secret data is used).

You'd figure that people who know what fusianasan is will also know how to trigger IDs.

> You spelled it fusiansan once.

So I misspelled one word once.

Sue me!

> Also, how is Kahera unrivaled when there are still large sites that are not running it? Shiichan is still on world4ch, Thorn on parts of wakachan for example.

Neither world4ch nor Pichan are by any means "large". Also, yes, as Shii said, their webmasters are stubborn.

Suggestion / Request

Making "More options..." an option in the configs.

Seems sensible, when you already have the ability to turn off WakabaMark as a board admin. Also, it will make me stop whining (a bit).

What wakaba needs is that SILLY_ANONYMOUS too! :D

> change the no-ID-on-email option to no-ID-on-sage
> multi-page links (1-, 101-, 201-, etc) at the top of subpages

Already implemented.

> config.pl parameter to permasage after a certain thread filesize/total number of characters has been reached

Isn't this essentially the same as saying "Please don't talk so much?"

> no EMAIL_ID parameter (most if not everyone uses "Heaven" anyway, and if they really want to change it they can easily find the string in kareha.pl)

The choice of this string is so weird and arbitary, I feel better keeping it as an option so that I can disclaim responsibility!

> better configuration of date and time (with optional timezone offsets), parsing certain characters for individual elements (ie, yyyy/MM/dd(D) hh:mm:ss -5:00:00) and also accepting numerical inputs for fixed dates and times (Eternal September)
> red, bold thread filesize indicator near the bottom of subpages

Pretty useless. I'd rather not waste work and code on something that has no actual use. (Timezone offsets would be useful, but this is such an incredibly hairy issue to get right, I don't want to even try. Just handling Daylight Savings Time would make my head explode, and I can't just leave it out, because then either the admin has to keep changing the offset, or the time will be wrong half the year anyway.)

> non-bolded post numbers
> colons before dates
> colons before names (thread subpages only)

what

Oops, here's the screenshot. orz

Well, there are some issues to consider here:

• Hardly anybody needs to ever use fusianasan. It's a gimmick. Design decisions should not be made around it.
• The strings may be strange, and combining fields isn't the best design possible, but this is a 0ch clone, after all. If I were designing something from scratch, I'd do things differently, but as it is, people are expecting 0ch behaviour, and it would confuse them if the script worked like 0ch in some ways but not others.
• I might consider adding additional strings that trigger sage and fusianasan, but I'm not sure what they should be.

In the end, people actually enjoy the 0ch quirkiness. I know I do. I know about designing good interfaces, but there's something fun about an interface that is a little bit quirky, as long as it doesn't get in your way, and these things don't.