The Legendary Next Update (365)

51 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2005-10-15 19:43 ID:Heaven [Del]

> It would eliminate the concept of sageing as a protest entirely.

Except that nobody knows what's going on back-end.

I like the idea though.

242 Name:   2005-10-22 10:53 ID:Heaven [Del]

Here's a fun little game for you all!

I'm looking into adding support for using HTML markup in addition to WakabaMark, but since most boards use XHTML, I can't just let through any old HTML, and most people can't write well-formed XHTML. Also, I don't want any cross-site scripting going on. So I've tried to write a piece of code that takes any horribly written piece of HTML, sanitizes it by removing all tags and attributes that are not an approved list, checks the attribute values, and turns it into well-formed XML.

Now I'd like to see if anyone can break this. The objective is to get some Javascript onto the page, or making the page break in Firefox (or any other browser that parses XML strictly), or otherwise causing trouble. Have at it!

http://wakaba.c3.cx/test/sanitize.pl

353 Name: !WAHa.06x36 : 2005-10-28 09:06 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>348

That's a Firefox bug.

120 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-18 04:30 ID:Heaven [Del]

And this:

だってよ。

231 :ひろゆき ◆3SHRUNYAXA @どうやら管理人 ★:04/02/05 14:13 ID:???
ハンマー投げゲーム機能つけてみました。
名前の欄に『murofusianasan』と書き込めば
【60m】とか【75m】とか記録が出ます。
数値はランダムで0~100くらいまでありますよ。。。
お暇なら遊んでください。

189 Name:   2005-10-20 11:10 ID:Heaven [Del]

> Another topic: since dynamic pages eat up CPU in order to rebuild pages according to URL parameters, what would be the likelihood of the current dynamic thread subpages having a significantly adverse effect in this aspect if a board were to grow to 2ch-sized proportions?

The effect would be miniscule in comparison to the huge increase in bandwidth that would result from sending the entire static thread pages.

The "entire thread" link can easily be changes to link to the files in /res/ instead of going through the script, but that would make it somewhat less convenient when you want to consturct custom URLs, so I haven't done it.

> Also, let's put out a partition to kill secure tripcodes (unless they originated from 0ch/Futaba)

Why? Even if 0ch or Futaba implemented secure tripcodes, you wouldn't get the same secure tripcode there as on another board. That's the nature of the security.

> captcha (until we find a way to implement similar functionality without requiring it in the form of a GIF/PNG image)

That's even more non-sensical. Nobody on the entire internet has figured out a reasonable way to implement captcha except by using images, and the only boards that use them are image boards where you have to load images anyway. And finally, they aren't just there to annoy you, people do actually try to flood boards, and they are stopped by the captcha.

> And is there any practical way that Kareha can be modified to run multiple (even nested) boards in a single installation?

Not without doing a lot of changes throughout the code, and not without breaking current installations.

237 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-21 22:39 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>236
I mean, thread titles in <h2> and post headers in <h3>.

274 Name: !WAHa.06x36 : 2005-10-23 16:52 ID:Heaven [Del]

> Did you ditch customizable capcodes?

No, I removed the dumbass capcode I put in as a demonstration, because I don't like capcodes.

> Using "◆" as the default tripkey character.

I dunno, I always thought that was a kind of big and annoying symbol. Especially when it's so close visually to the question-mark-in-diamond marker some fonts use for characters they don't support.

> How about placing the Formatting menu to the left or right of the "File: " field? I'd also like to see WakabaMark changed to its real name (Markdown).

The File field is almost never there. Also, WakabaMark is similar to, but not the same as Markdown. There are significant differences that make them incompatible (since Markdown is designed to be used when you know you're using it, but WakabaMark tries as best as it can to not do unexpected things if you don't know about it). I might add optional support for real Markdown at some point.

> In Pseud0ch, post numbers should be the same size/format as the rest of the header text

I tried, and it looked much worse than the current solution. Besides, post numbers in Kareha and 0ch aren't the same, since they're clickable here.

> PS. What's "Raw HTML"?

Pretty useless. I'll probably remove it. It's HTML input without turning newlines into <br/>.

> Oh, and "AA mode" should be changed to "Text art mode"

Maybe just "Text art"... hmm.

189 Name:   2005-10-20 11:10 ID:Heaven [Del]

> Another topic: since dynamic pages eat up CPU in order to rebuild pages according to URL parameters, what would be the likelihood of the current dynamic thread subpages having a significantly adverse effect in this aspect if a board were to grow to 2ch-sized proportions?

The effect would be miniscule in comparison to the huge increase in bandwidth that would result from sending the entire static thread pages.

The "entire thread" link can easily be changes to link to the files in /res/ instead of going through the script, but that would make it somewhat less convenient when you want to consturct custom URLs, so I haven't done it.

> Also, let's put out a partition to kill secure tripcodes (unless they originated from 0ch/Futaba)

Why? Even if 0ch or Futaba implemented secure tripcodes, you wouldn't get the same secure tripcode there as on another board. That's the nature of the security.

> captcha (until we find a way to implement similar functionality without requiring it in the form of a GIF/PNG image)

That's even more non-sensical. Nobody on the entire internet has figured out a reasonable way to implement captcha except by using images, and the only boards that use them are image boards where you have to load images anyway. And finally, they aren't just there to annoy you, people do actually try to flood boards, and they are stopped by the captcha.

> And is there any practical way that Kareha can be modified to run multiple (even nested) boards in a single installation?

Not without doing a lot of changes throughout the code, and not without breaking current installations.

196 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-20 12:51 ID:tlSRz7E3 [Del]

>>189

>The effect would be miniscule in comparison to the huge increase in bandwidth that would result from sending the entire static thread pages.

How about a config.pl parameter to split up thread subpages into X posts per page? The navigation links already use 100 posts per page for practically everything except "Last 50 posts".

Hmm, I just remembered: >> links would not work at all with static pages. Not good.

>Why? Even if 0ch or Futaba implemented secure tripcodes, you wouldn't get the same secure tripcode there as on another board. That's the nature of the security.

Right, I guess it was dumb to mention 0ch/Futaba in the first place. The point is, as you said yourself, tripcodes are a gimmick, and if someone wants to maintain a persistent identity across multiple boards and sites (ie, everyone here with a tripcode), they have no choice but to use ordinary tripcodes. Secure tripcodes are useless because they limit your identity to a single board, supposing each board/site's cipher key is different -- which it should be, since that's the point of having a secure tripcode in the first place. No one should be so paranoid about a tripcode that they'd need to have a different one per board/site.

>Not without doing a lot of changes throughout the code, and not without breaking current installations.

Shouldn't we sacrifice some backwards compatibility for a more robust and scalable design? It might even be possible to provide an upgrade.pl for old threads.

>>193

>You could only trigger the functions in a specific format, say...

That's a cool idea, though for now it would have to be left alone if we want to keep Kareha compatible with 2ch/Futaba conventions.

>>195
Exactly. The methods and the effects of saging a thread are separate subjects.

P.S. I recently discovered "rXX-XX" for threads in /soc/. How exactly does this work? From the sound of it, it's supposed to randomize the post order, but when I hit refresh I get the same order.

165 Name: Shii the Metal Idol 2005-10-19 18:13 ID:z/kxsMjQ [Del]

> Huh?

You know, like [email protected].

Shiichan 2000 let you enter "down" to sage and "showip" for fusianasan, but it was mainly just a curiosity and was not used. There's no one English word that does the job of the pseudo-Japanese "sage". Better to have a tick-box and explain to people why it is useful. Or an option for it.

> Then the board has to be configurated to just do that (it already can).

No, 148 is referring to a user-end problem, not a server-end problem.

308 Name: Anonymous : 2005-10-24 15:37 ID:hjzD4Li4 [Del]

Why not make None or Text Art the default? That way you don't surprise people.

Also, can you make >> links into anchors('#') when you're on the reply/entire thread page, especially in Wakaba? Currently when you click the link it just reloads the page with a different highlight, which is not all that helpful.

216 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-21 15:04 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>208

> multi-page links (1-, 101-, 201-, etc) at the top of subpages

This is just implemented on some 0ch types. 2channel doesn't use it (at least on no board that I know of).

181 Name:   2005-10-20 06:39 ID:ReFmOAs0 [Del]

>>180

The one with encoded Javascript that makes you post with fusianasan is cute.

108 Name: 34.75.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com 2005-10-17 19:51 ID:Heaven [Del]

I thought fusianasan was supposed to be a mod-only function to weed out bad posters. And what would be the difference between revealing the persons's IP and his ISP's domain?

>>99
I didn't mean to include Forcenick in there, sorry.
Adding to that, however, how about forced sage for specificed IPs? It'd make for a great slogan: Remember kids, tripcodes and aging are privileges, not rights!

118 Name:   2005-10-18 04:21 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>116

Apparently it's not Japanese, because it's supposed to be pronounced as an English word. I have no clue, though.

55 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-16 10:35 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>54
I really don't understand what the problem with the current system is. You must be confused. ┐('~`;)┌

294 Name: !WAHa.06x36 : 2005-10-23 20:38 ID:Heaven [Del]

> I don't see a big fat ugly WakabaMark FAQ next to the post form either.

You don't see the link to the WakabaMark page either?

> I am just guessing here, but I am pretty sure most people will only change their settings in very rare cases.

I just added the Text Art mode so that people could post AA on any board and have it work right, but the only way for that to work is if you can quickly change modes between posts.

Look, it's getting just a tiny bit annoying with the complaining. I've been putting a huge amount of effort into making this work well both for those who want markup and those who don't. If you don't like it, you turn it off and don't need to bother with it again. There's just a tiny little link there to let people do this. Is this really a such a huge bother to deal with? It's *two words*.

323 Name: Anonymous : 2005-10-26 18:16 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>321
Wait, why should l50 links be indexed/cached? IMO the only links that should be on Google at all are main pages and "entire thread" links.

Some final points (I hope) before the whole thing is wrapped up:

  • The CSS in the All threads page is unsightly. Is there a way to properly wrap the outer color border(s) around the table of threads?
  • I still say that the "Navigation: " text is extraneous when people can clearly see what the links do. Also still partitioning for 0ch-style error pages (with displayed user host and all).
  • Now that we do have filesize indicators in the backlog page of mode_message, do you still find it useless to have the red bold filesizes near the bottom of thread subpages?
  • Does mode_message now work in PAGE_GENERATION => 'paged'?
  • Idea: forced anonymous/sage/ID/fusianasan by IP/thread/board/whole site (some of these combinations already exist, I know)?
  • Finally, I imagine that the permasage/close/delete functions in kareha.pl will be easily interchangeable among the conditions in post_stuff(). Can you confirm this?

125 Name:   2005-10-18 07:50 ID:ReFmOAs0 [Del]

>>123

Noted. I've been struggling with that same problem for naming things internally in the code, and obviously it distracted me from noticing the same problem in the GUI.

307 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E : 2005-10-24 15:21 ID:Heaven [Del]

> It's a link, it screams "Click me!".

There's something to be said about obsessive-compulsive... >.>;

174 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-20 02:03 ID:Heaven [Del]

> Making them configurable from site to site is really dumb, because it would create an unthinkable usability mess.

Why? Let people figure out things themselves, if they are so keen on changing their keywords. They can get together in their own webmaster threads and figure this out. I don't see why this should be solved here.
Of course I think this is a dumb idea in the first place. Nobody needs to know what fusianasan and sage are. Write a FAQ with two sentences about it and/or let your oldtime users tell newbies. Two frickin' words, and you people talk about it as if it were something like making up a new system of romanization!

> Then why not simply boil it all down to the comment field, with trigger strings for inputting the name, e-mail, sage, ID:Heaven, and fusianasan? You can get a lot more minimal with the current interface.

That's a bit too much. You want to talk about sage and fusianasan in the comment field, not trigger it with it.
I suspect you are joking here, though. Design is about what you can take away and still remain optimal conveniency/efficiency on the user part, not about taking as much away as you are technically capable of.

282 Name: !WAHa.06x36 : 2005-10-23 18:24 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>280

I'm not sure. On the one hand, people expect that to work. On the other hand, it can be a bit annoying. On the third hand, it's not all that annoying anyway.

176 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-20 02:32 ID:Heaven [Del]

PS: I just tested fusianasan + tripcode on 2ch, it works fine.

123 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-18 07:27 ID:Heaven [Del]

Some semantical nitpicking: "replies" should probably be changed to "posts", since >>1 is not really a reply, which makes >>100 the 99th reply to a thread, thus contradicting the "First 100 replies" thing. Same goes for "Next 100 replies" and "Last 50 replies".

162 Name:   2005-10-19 16:45 ID:gBva8ggI [Del]

Well, there are some issues to consider here:

  • Hardly anybody needs to ever use fusianasan. It's a gimmick. Design decisions should not be made around it.
  • The strings may be strange, and combining fields isn't the best design possible, but this is a 0ch clone, after all. If I were designing something from scratch, I'd do things differently, but as it is, people are expecting 0ch behaviour, and it would confuse them if the script worked like 0ch in some ways but not others.
  • I might consider adding additional strings that trigger sage and fusianasan, but I'm not sure what they should be.

In the end, people actually enjoy the 0ch quirkiness. I know I do. I know about designing good interfaces, but there's something fun about an interface that is a little bit quirky, as long as it doesn't get in your way, and these things don't.

99 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-17 14:50 ID:Heaven [Del]

I've returned from the world of the dead, with old forgotten...suggestions! http://wakaba.c3.cx/sup/kareha.pl/1109447905/l50

>-Scaleable administration (ie, [variable permissions for different passwords])
>-Forcenick and/or force anon for [specified IPs]

27 Name: ¦ 2005-10-14 00:38 ID:Heaven [Del]

Test with ¦

130 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-18 17:19 ID:Heaven [Del]

Oh, and I apologize for indirectly causing you too much trouble with this change.

23 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-13 22:46 ID:0dCD+kFU [Del]

The point is to make a portable file, so you do not /have/ to compile it on the host. Statically linked lets you use libraries that the host does not have.

Sure, doing it in perl is an option though.

59 Name: Anonymous 2005-10-16 21:22 ID:Heaven [Del]

I was browsing through some old threads and now they're all gone. :(

This thread has been closed. You cannot post in this thread any longer.