Historical Antecedents of Image Boards and Photoshopping (23)

1 Name: Mahsroh!Xz4otxVxnQ 2004-10-25 22:45 ID:5xvkH/Pw [Del]

How do we place these two within the history of art?

How are the goals of *chan-style Photoshopping like/unlike collage? Does Dali's L.H.O.O.Q. anticipate Photoshopping, or are they both derived from the same psychological source?

What about the transient nature of image boards? Are those who ceaselessly save every image appearing on the boards missing the point? And can anyone think of a true historical antecedent? Because I can't think of any, too busy masturbating to My Little Pony.

2 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2004-10-27 01:48 ID:7kWpl48w [Del]

This is an awesome topic and it needs a whole lot more replies, but I can find nothing to say!

3 Name: whee 2004-10-27 05:23 ID:mqF5/XGg [Del]

>How are the goals of *chan-style Photoshopping like/unlike collage?

All I can think of at the moment is that the goal in almost all cases of *chan memes(especially oekaki) is to create humour rather than any attempt at serious "art". You could call it a semiorganized form of public grafitti. And grafitti has been around since ancient times.

>Are those who ceaselessly save every image appearing on the boards missing the point?

I would say it's more of a learned precaution. There's always going to be someone who didn't save an image requesting a repost later on. However, it does take a certain amount of obsessive-compulsiveness to save /all/ images.

4 Name: Mahsroh!Xz4otxVxnQ 2004-10-28 01:39 ID:ERB3424g [Del]

Ok, I figured something out. The way that *chan "memes" are portrayed and perpetuated is really similar to the early Christian tradition of "icons."

(Disclaimer: I haven't looked into meme stuff so much. So when I refer to meme, I mean only the kind appearing on the *chans, and only the pictoral kind.)

Icons were small two-dimensional portraits of holy figures like Mary, Jesus, and different apostles and saints. Once a portrait-type was conceived, it would be REPEATED, other artists making copies of the original, with only slight changes throughout the centuries.

You can see the similarity: *chan memes originate with one pictorial idea, which is then cut-and-pasted over and over again into different situations, with the main idea remaining the same. I'm thinking of the meme where you have the basic picture of Pedobear, or Happy Negro, or the comic with the excited and unexcited guys: types that people who frequent *chans recognize instantly upon seeing; I guess ascii pictures also fall into this category. (There also seems to be another category of *chan meme, which I really don't feel like defining, or even know how to define, but OS-tans and the pip-pip dog are examples of this.)

However, iconic depictions of holy figures were seen as coming directly from God, which is supposedly why artists were loath to change them. We are reluctant to change meme imagery even now--there seems to be something psychologically in common with our reluctance and that of the early Christian artists.

Also, the iconic figures that were most successful in perpetuating themselves were those that aided the meditation of a person holding the icon in their hands, staring at the image. So iconic figural qualities included full-frontality, a focus of the figure on the viewer, etc... anything that would draw the viewer into the picture.

So nowadays, the memes that are perpetuated for long periods of time probably have certain qualities in common with each other. What are these qualities?

I'm done haha

5 Name: whee 2004-10-28 07:38 ID:yGs6Dg4A [Del]

>There also seems to be another category of *chan meme, which I really don't feel like defining, or even know how to define, but OS-tans and the pip-pip dog are examples of this.

I think you could say there's different levels of memes. Things like ANBU guys, Suruzan lifting skirts, or the black and white images in this thread http://www.suteki.nu/oekaki/b/res/18.html are generally based around copies of an original image with minor edits or copies of a certain pose. These are about the simplest, or lowest level meme and might be called "iconic memes", after the tradition of icon making you mentioned.

The OS-tans went from being edits of existing art to getting original images of themselves, by dozens of artists in as many styles. They, along with nevada, Waha, ginko the cat, other ascii characters and such are a more involved kind of meme. They're in a wierd zone between single concept memes and full doujin communities.

>We are reluctant to change meme imagery even now

Seeing as memes are based around an idea, straying too far from the idea would make it irrelevant to the meme, wouldn't it? I guess that could relate to religious iconography, as there no doubt was a set of commonly used, and more importantly, commonly understood symbolism in the icons. Like halos, or hearts and other items held in hands.

ASCII images are probably the closest thing to the icons, since variation in style and format is so restricted by the medium. (at least for small-scale hand made images rather than full black and white pictures run through an ASCII generator)

6 Name: whee 2004-10-28 07:39 ID:yGs6Dg4A [Del]

>So nowadays, the memes that are perpetuated for long periods of time probably have certain qualities in common with each other. What are these qualities?

A simple core idea, understandable at a glance is essential. Long-running memes are generally easy to slap onto other concepts, like waha popping out of random images or ANBU guys cheering at anything.

Do artists in general often do multiple versions of the same work? The only one I can think of right now is Munsch's variations on "The Scream".

Should we even be using the word meme for this kind of thing? It sound like it'd apply to a lot more than image board running gags. Would neta be more appropriate?

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7 Name: Anonymous 2005-03-18 17:50 ID:GhaAUMfP [Del]

>And can anyone think of a true historical antecedent?

One thing that comes to mind now is those blackboards you sometimes see in train station scenes. I've heard they're for public use, to leave messages for others. But that's probably more related to anonymous message boards in general than image boards.

8 Name: XeB 2005-03-20 20:17 ID:xo5aeinJ [Del]

>And can anyone think of a true historical antecedent?

Actually, one just sprung to mind when i was reading this. When I was in school (many years ago) we used old fashioned wooden desks. It was common practice to write grafitti etc on them, but since it was often the same people sitting at any particular desk (we would only be in one classroom/desk for 1hr or so at a time) you would often get things like conversations, join authored poems, strange doodles etc. You could literally spend hours tracing the pouring over the desks in a classroom finding intersting 'posts' as it were..

9 Name: Anonymous 2005-03-21 12:11 ID:qUi+wP6v [Del]

The desks in my school were more like News4VIP.

10 Name: Anonymous 2005-03-21 12:12 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>9

lol, true for me too!

11 Name: Anonymous 2005-03-31 19:35 ID:NW677A5D [Del]

Damn, if only I were at UC Santa Cruz or somewhere more flaky than where I am, I'd have an MA thesis topic.

;p

12 Name: Anonymous 2005-04-01 17:42 ID:GhaAUMfP [Del]

>>8
You could probably also say that about bathroom or outdoor graffiti. On a somewhat related note, there's been a rash of people tagging "Val Kilmer" around my city. It became so well known others hopped on the bandwagon or tried to start their own running gags, or even scrawled pithy comments on the walls deriding the whole idea. Reminds me of a failed forced meme in /b.

13 Name: Anonymous 2005-04-01 18:53 ID:Heaven [Del]

I would place them along the lines of the defamatory pamphlets that rose to great circulation during reformation/restoration. They often involved wood-cuts of well-known portraits, with the faces exchanged with the likenesses of animals (Jean Calvin as a Pig, the Pope as a Wolf) and often gave way to swathes of humorous permutations, which often became popular in-jokes with locals. Furthermore, they were equally easy (and shoddy) to produce and spread quite quickly.

btw, "*chan" within a 1000 word range of "art" is a pretty disturbing thing.

14 Name: Furi!EuK0M02kkg 2005-05-31 08:28 ID:Ea92SdFo [Del]

>>13
I think you'll find "art" on the whole is rather permissive. Need proof of how simple or "pop" art can get? Go look on the street or listen to some music.

15 Name: Anonymous 2005-05-31 10:48 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>14

That ain't art, that's mass commercialism masking itself with a lot of ironic but meaningless label interchanging.

16 Name: Furi!EuK0M02kkg 2005-06-01 10:36 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>15
That's exactly my point. That's what passes for "art" nowadays.
Ever heard of Andy Warhol? I won't get started on Pop Art. Any other takers?

17 Name: Anonymous 2005-06-01 19:44 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>16

I don't think you have a particular point.

18 Name: Anonymous 2005-06-03 11:38 ID:Y7RiK7N3 [Del]

No point. It's social commentary, pretty self explanatory.

19 Name: Ordinary K!3GqYIJ3Obs 2005-06-05 00:08 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>18

"And airline food! WHAT IS THE DEAL!?"

20 Name: Anonymous : 2010-05-31 16:10 ID:btIHPTSm [Del]

yes, there was prior art using an "imagechat" for conversational art.

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22 Name: Anonymous : 2010-11-23 18:56 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>21
Man, I thought that was a troll, until I noticed the urls.

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