Is that it for Positions? I hope not. I think it would be ironic if the final chapter of Positions featured the Ship of What Is To Come.
- martialstax
Wednesday, March 17, 2004
Howdy,
I think there is one more chapter, but Neil will have to let us know.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Wednesday, March 17, 2004
Hey Dave maybe you know this. Is PositioN a series like YKK or a collection of short stories?
- Christine K
Wednesday, March 17, 2004
Howdy,
Afternoon used to have a quarterly special in addition to the monthly title that YKK is in. Position was in that quarterly title. Unfortunately, it was cancelled, so the five or so chapters that were published is all we have.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Wednesday, March 17, 2004
Well, hopefully, if Ashinano still wants to do PositioN stories, Kodansha will find a spot in Afternoon from time to run them.
- martialstax
Wednesday, March 17, 2004
And to keep this on topic, is it me, or does the Ship of What is to Come look an awful lot like a submarine that's been dredged up from the bottom of the ocean?
- martialstax
Wednesday, March 17, 2004
Is this a vision of the launch of the Taapon? First a lighter than air lift. Then it grows wings?
- Loran
Wednesday, March 17, 2004
I've got at least one more chapter of PositioN sitting on my hard drive awaiting translation. I think that's the last of it, alas, although I'll have to check through my magazines one more time to make sure I didn't overlook anything.
- dn
Wednesday, March 17, 2004
I kinda like thinking that "the shape of things to come" became "the ship of what is to come."
Does this suggest that the ship has pulled out, and is taking the opportunities elsewhere?
One more: why am I thinking about NieA? Is the ship connected to Chinu, the parakeet? (though I get the sense that these stories don't really relate to each other).
- steven austin
Wednesday, March 17, 2004
I can't help but look at his bike and think that this ends the debait of the author took any of veichals designs from the real world.
People have been trying to find where he got the designs for Ojisan's truck, and the scooters. Well i'm thinking that he just took his artistic talent and kinda thought stuff up.
Either that, or he's so knolageable on the subject he can choose types that were so obscure that no one would be able to identfy them, but still draw them with relativly little detail.
its an occum's razor kind of thing.
Its noticable that the bike shares a single tube style that Alpha's scooter has, and I know I've never seen a bicycle designed like that, and can't think of any self respecting engineer that would design one. I'm not saying there's never been a bike with one tube, but they have MUCH different shape/characteristics that make them a lot stronger then this one would appear to be. (I can't help but picture that thing snaping at the seat-post at the first bump)
As an additional note. Manga artists that do have paticular outside intrests and expertice tend to choose to portray the things they're intrested in specific examples (sometimes they're faverites of the intrest) in usually astonishing accuracy and detail, (see: motorcycles, cars of "Oh My Goddess") even if their style in the rest of the aspects of they're work is less detail orentied (see: cars and weapons of "Gunsmith Cats")
- Canti-sama
Saturday, March 20, 2004
Howdy,
You have a good point. However, the thing that is confusing for many of us is that Ashinano is so particular about many things. The Texan airplane. The squeeze cocked gun Alpha carries. Those are all meticulously copied from real life. So having seen that, it's not surprising that some folks are interested in chasing down the influences or models that Ashinano uses in his designs.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Sunday, March 21, 2004
actually, that kind of supports what i said thought. both of those are mentioned explicetly as what they are (http://ykk.misago.org/Volume8/75), and are easly identified.
well i guess thats all the tangent this topic can stand...
as for the ship of things to come, we can look at it from the point of view of the stones. they stones were excited that they actually saw the ship, as if they didn't expect to see it in their "lifetime." or at least the smaller stone. the larger stone seems to be more like a parent with an excited child. this could be a resonable interpatation of the two stones. Regardless, would would think that the "lifetime" of a stone would be incredably long, even for a "child," so for one to be supriesed to see it (for the first time even) it means it would have to be something that hasn't happend in a very long time. I also see the ship riseing out of the ground as a type of comming out of hybernation. which could be why they wouldn't have seen it in a long time. it feels to me to be more like the idea "things are going to start changing for the first time in along time, the ship of things to come is awake."
I get the feeling that this is like a slip in the perception of time. and for some reason he was able to see things on the scale that a stone would. the way the light from the street lamps were bending and streching. it reminds me of the laws of relitivity, with time, velocity and light. its also noticable that the que that hes back in the "normal" world is that the street lights have returend to bright circles. if both stories are actually on the same planet in different time periods this could be the sign that the changes that affect the world to turn it inot Alpha's is about to happen.
- canti-sama
Sunday, March 21, 2004
That certainly is an interesting bicycle, Canti-sama. The single tube design seems flimsy, and the kickstand is in an odd place. Also, it seems to have a shaft instead of a chain. I wonder if it's not a folding bike, in which case the second tube and the chain could be inconvenient. Or perhaps it is a racing model, with a single tube for the weight advantage and a shaft for durability. The way it is drawn seems to hint at a detailed idea of what an actual model would look like, and I also wonder if our beloved artist is not bending his expertise to fantasy, designing his own bicycle for fun.
- bin bin and the stache
Sunday, March 21, 2004
Well, chainless bikes are not unknown, just uncommon:
http://www.chainless.com/bikeindex.html
As for the frame design, there are hundreds of designers fooling around with bicycle frame design. The one in the story is not impossible. Many composite frames have only one central member.
- Loran
Monday, March 22, 2004
The bicycle in this article is very similar to the one in Position.
http://www.jbpi.or.jp/english/b.news/top_1.html
- Loran
Monday, March 22, 2004
hmm. i didn't notice the drive shaft before. and from this one its pretty aparent that it is the case http://ykk.misago.org/PositioN/43
that would help explain why it would only have one down tube. Im sorry if i wasn't claer, but i didn't say that single downtubes were not being made, just that i haven't seen ones that look like this one. all the ones i've seen tended to be a lot more brawed, verticaly. also going back i noticed the tube is angled better then i first remembered.
i also noticed that there are no external cables for breaks and what not. thats another tings that still uncommon nowadays. http://ykk.misago.org/PositioN/33
the first time i saw a bike with a stand on the back i thought it was werd too, but i've since come to find its pretty common.
- Canti-sama
Monday, March 22, 2004
All things said I still wouldn't like to take that thing off road.
- Canti-sama
Monday, March 22, 2004
Apparantly, this is not a popular frame configuration. It is called a T-Frame or T-Type. Here is an example:
http://www.allproducts.com.tw/manufacture6/topimage/ba4t.html
- Loran
Monday, March 22, 2004
well gosh darnit if im not completely wrong....
- Canti-sama
Monday, March 22, 2004
It looks like Muji's bike.
http://www.e-oribe.info/OribeHP/02awards/06winner4th/muji02.html
They are selling bikes of this design for about 10 years in Japan.
Muji also had shaft-driven bikes, which is no longer in production.
http://jida-dm.syncline.jp/DMHP/2001/item17.html
- kGo
Tuesday, March 23, 2004
"Shaft drive" ("Kardanantrieb") bicycles are quite old tech, they date back to about 1880-85. Here is a link to a (German) website about several chainless ("kettenlose") bicycles with pictures:
http://www.fahrradsammler.de/tilman/galerie/Kettenlose/kettenlose.html
We had a small revival in Europe during the Eighties, but they more or less vanished again from our streets. Shaft drives are expensive and have quite a bit more friction than chains, maybe that and the absence of an 3x8 gear system outweights the lower maintainance and grease issues in the buyer's perspective.
- Rainer
Tuesday, March 23, 2004
Muji's shaft-driven model looks to be the one.
- Bin Bin and the Stache
Saturday, March 27, 2004
Yes, although you can see bowden cables for brakes and gear shift - but IMHO Ashinano-sensei just skipped a bit on the details;-)
Now that it seems clear this bike doesn't come from imagination I wonder what/where the origin for Alpha's bike is - the thread about YKK's vehicle origins is currently sleeping
http://ykk.misago.org/Forum?cmd=show&id=659&replies=35
- Rainer
Saturday, March 27, 2004
Here is something interesting. The bike style shown in Positions was in production in the 1950's:
http://www.npo-ttj.com/sub4ttj-kyousan-member-MiTHUBISHI-Jujigou2-1950.htm
The caption says this is:
Mithubishi-jujigou (DUJEE) around Mk-2 1950 JAPAN
The Mitsubishi cruciform number 2 type bicycle, the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd. (Inc.) it was produced at the Tsu equipment factory.
- Loran
Friday, April 9, 2004
I agree on the similar tube geometry, but anything else is old-fashioned: Look at that front-wheel brake!;)
The bike in PositioN, OTOH, is rather sporty.
Happy Easter, folks - if you happen to be into that egg stuff:D
- Rainer
Saturday, April 10, 2004
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