Howdy,
The peripatetic elves have left footprints leading to chapter 136 over at:
http://www.cafealpha.org/
yakisoba-pan for everyone.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Friday, October 28, 2005
It still amazes me how Ashinano can say more in one wistful panel than the whole text of a chapter...
Thanks so very much Elves!
- Darin~
Friday, October 28, 2005
doumo, but I prefer a croquette & cafe with milk same as Kokone does.
^_^
- Naret
Friday, October 28, 2005
Thanks to the elves, as usual. Life wouldn't be the same without a YKK dose every month...
Ten years, ten years...
http://ykk.misago.org/Volume5/37.html
If there is not a translation nuance, I seems that the time gap we have been discussing for a while, never existed to begin with....
Good-byes, awareness of time passing. Several chapter in a row dealing with the same subject.
Now it is Kokone's turn to realise that nobody is spared, even immortal, never aging beings...
- DavidF
Saturday, October 29, 2005
^__________________^ happy~
- lepinkainen
Saturday, October 29, 2005
Thank you once again for a great chapter. This is the first time I've seen Ashinano focus on such a tiny character in a big way. You kind of overlook how important Shiba-chan is. To Kokone Shiba is her link to the human world just like Sensei, Ojisan, Ayase, Takahiro, and Makki are connections for Alpha. Makki's now moved away and is becoming Kokone's connection to the human world. I get the feeling Takahiro just might have become the thing to replace the old woman in Nai's life too. It seems everyone but Alpha and Director Alpha have a human companion close by.
We haven't heard how Nai is doing or how Takahiro is doing lately. We need an update on them. Hopefully the next few chapters will have some mention of those two.
- Christine K
Saturday, October 29, 2005
I thought Kokone might be getting wanderlust, the last time we saw her, but she's awfully clingy when Shiba-chan announces her promotion.
Also, it does indeed look like the time lapse in the manga was only our imagination.
- Kerry
Saturday, October 29, 2005
Well, that's a problem. Siba-san made her appearance in ch. 93 in vol.10, and first "author's visit" to Cafe Alpha was in vol.4. Two recent chapters are compressing the possible time significantly. Of course, if chapters in YKK are strictly hronological. Have to rethink the hronology of events. Something just not seems right... As author is trying to force "too long" time interval of story into actual time of publishing. 11 years in manga=11 years of release.
Somehow, that's dissapointing.
- Drake
Saturday, October 29, 2005
look like kokone having same problem as alpha.
- charles C
Saturday, October 29, 2005
Howdy,
My take on it is that Makki's growth alone is evidence for a time jump. I think that the quote of "ten years" in this chapter may just be the characters speaking in General terms.
It indeed the ten years is litteral, then we have conflicting evidence of time's passage.
I wonder if Ashinano did it on purpose.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Saturday, October 29, 2005
I went over to cafealpha, like normal, but I didn't see chap 136 on the list.... Am I just not seeing it, or has it moved to a different spot on that site? Or was it taken down for some reason?...... Just thought it odd that others obviously got ahold of it, but I don't see it when I got there like normal. :(
Steve
- Steve Berry
Saturday, October 29, 2005
Steve, click F5 (or ctrl F5) to refresh the page. =)
Alternatively, here's the page: http://www.cafealpha.org/ch136/1.html
- Carn
Saturday, October 29, 2005
Thank Elves for all those chapter we haw been getting lately.
John_Silver
- John_Silver
Saturday, October 29, 2005
In the Japanese text, she said 'ju...' but stopped without saying 'nen' ("years"), and put it in other words 'nagai yo ne', "it's been long". It might be 'ju nen' (ten years) , 'ju ichi nen' (eleven years) or even 'ju ku nen' (nineteen years).
Note that Japanese language does not have single words for the numbers from eleven to nineteen. You use two words like 'ju ichi' (ten one), 'ju ni' (ten two) or 'ju ku/kyu' (ten nine).
We can talk more about the time jump.
-kGo
- Kimoto Go
Sunday, October 30, 2005
Bless you elves. Hope to see you in a month.
- El gonzo
Sunday, October 30, 2005
But like DavidF said earlier in this thread, Siba (Shiba) does appear much earlier in the manga-- Volume 5, page 37
http://ykk.misago.org/Volume5/37.html
Which would be just about the same time as the "author's" first visit to Cafe Alpha. If both of these statements are true, then it would seem like the 10 years since the last visit would agree with Kokone's statement about 10 years passing while working with Shiba as well. They also basically agree with the time lapse since the typhoon, which was labeled as 6 years ago back around the mid- one hundred teens, right?
It all seems (to me) to agree with the concept that 10 years have passed since volume 4/ early volume 5, and that, approximately, time passage in YKK is the same as time passage in our lives, i.e. a year for each volume.
But I'm open for debate. It's just the way it seemed from the text,if you take it at face value, and put the three recent statements regarding time together.
BTW, thanks for the help with the link earlier. I don't know why the normal link wasn't there for me...... ??
- Steve Berry
Sunday, October 30, 2005
Oh, yeah, Steve, thanks fot pointing out my mistake. Surely, if Siba appered in Vol.5, than Makki can be 17-18 years old, and looking as mature as she is.
- Drake
Sunday, October 30, 2005
We all seem to forget that Sasage chapter during volume 8. As one person pointed out Makki getting the Sasage was a sign that she's indeed getting older and hit puberty. It's having the little things like that to remind us when the characters are growing older that make this manga so special. So by then Makki would have been around twelve or thirteen and since that was six volumes ago she could indeed be the age people are estimating she is now if it's a year per volume.
- Christine K
Sunday, October 30, 2005
The problem is that I tryed to calculate years by counting changing seasons in manga. And it resulted in 13 or 14 years at vol.12 already...
- Drake
Sunday, October 30, 2005
I'm thinking that we're looking too much into the one month/chapter thing. I'm re-reading the series now, and there are several instances of 3-4 chapters taking place over a small number of days. And, as Drake said, the change in the seasons suggest that the overall timeline is going faster than "real time", so the timeflow chapter-to-chapter cannot be considered consistant.
And Kimoto's explanation of the "ten years" thing does make a lot of sense.
- Silver
Sunday, October 30, 2005
This chapter has me wondering just how long Kokone's been working at that compnay making deliveries. We know Shiba's been there for ten years from the comment she's made. In that same period of time Shiba's been able to get promoted to management but I wonder if Kokone will ever be promoted at all. Can a robot in a position like hers get promoted or does the delivery company intentionally keep her out in the field because she's a robot? It seems from what Shiba's said Kokone hasn't changed much since she first met her. That sounds to me that Kokone is incapable of job advancement at all and really hasn't had the change in personality like Alpha did. Alpha's journey away from home helped her to "Grow" so to speak whereas Kokone's stopped trying to find out what happened to the earlier models of robots and just settle into a routine at work. Makes you wonder if Kokone even wants to get a promotion at work.
- Christine K
Sunday, October 30, 2005
Whoa! Maybe you're reading more into ch 136 than is actually there. Kokone looked like she was getting a little restless just in the last few chapters. We haven't *seen* Kokone doing any robot research, but doesn't mean she has given up. Haven't seen any discrimination or indication that robots are second class citizens yet. And Kokone doesn't seem strapped for money - maybe she doesn't want a management job.
- Kerry
Sunday, October 30, 2005
This sort of thing happens when something new gets mentioned in the series. I start asking all these questions related to it. At one point I began to wonder if Ashinano knew about Asimov's laws of robotics. This is the first time job advancement has ever been mentioned. While I don't think they'd discriminate against the robots I would think there are some positions that only robots could fill. Because of the ability to transfer messages to other robots would they be wanted away from the field in the delivery business? That's what I wonder when I read this chapter. Are there just some jobs where robots wouldn't be good for management positions behind a desk? We know robots can make good bosses based on how Alpha handled working with Makki. I just wonder if those in the delivery field are allowed desk management or field management.
- Christine K
Sunday, October 30, 2005
> Makes you wonder if Kokone even wants to get a promotion at work.
Well, Kokone's attitude is more into keeping things the same as always, she was pretty happy where she was with Shiba and seeing Alpha every so often. We should remember that the pressure and requirement "to get ahead" isn't as strong in the YKK world, and that Kokone's character is naturally pretty repressed (ie, doesn't like change that much), however it's opening up slowly...
- PC
Monday, October 31, 2005
First of all, a warm thanks to the elves for all their hard work!
Christine, I have never thought about it before, but you brought up a very good point of the possibility of a "robot ceiling" in the world of YKK and their place in human society. If so then, how would Director Alpha fit in? She appears to be the only robot with authority shown so far in the series.
In addition, have we ever discussed whether or not the robots choose their jobs out of interest or were their jobs simply assigned to them?
- Peter by the Sea
Monday, October 31, 2005
Howdy,
It seems that Robots are allowed to choose their jobs, according to this page:
http://cafealpha.org/ch131/9.html
I also suspect that Kokone simply doesn't have the "drive" to seek promotion right now. She seems comfortable with the way things are, and I suspect this chapter (along with "solo") portend changes for Kokone.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Monday, October 31, 2005
Thank you, Elves. Another fine job you've done bringing us our monthly dose of YKK.
I think people are focusing on the "ten years" thing too much. Kinomoto Go gave a very good explanation why she could have been saying anything from ten to nineteen years. In other words, the answer is just as vague as we've come to expect from Ashinano. The only thing we can be sure of is that it's less than 20 years.
- martialstax
Monday, October 31, 2005
I agree that, as Kgo explained, the absence of the year counter in the original japanese allows enough space for the time jump... and as it has also been said, it is quite in Ashinano's style.
Regarding promotions in YKK's world, I think that there is not a workload heavy enough to move people from field to desk jobs. I mean, with population decreasing, the delivery business should be shrinking, not growing. It is not strange then that Shiba got promoted after more than ten years... and it could be only because they got overstaffed after Makki's entrance.
Besides, Kokone always has needed an external push to move forward, as Ashinano made it clear in a recent chapter.
http://www.cafealpha.org/ch129/13.html
It seems that Kokone will only act when it is strictly needed… or forced to. I it is interesting to notice that Kokone's search for meaning was prompted only because she met Alpha and it mainly consisted of visits to public libraries. A second interview with Sensei is still to be seen, despite the first being interrupted... and, as far as we know, Kokone has not tried to get in touch with her trainers in robot's academy….nor her owner (did she have a owner in the first place?)
This is strikingly in contrast with Maruko's attitude. She did not hesitate in visiting Alpha, just to see by herself who was that particular person… and as dDave has remarked, she is not afraid of moving to another jobs. I am sure that, in Kokone's place, she would have been promoted... if we put aside her feelings of pride and independence, of course.
Returning to the chapter, up to now, the passage of ttime has been experienced exclusively through Alpha’s eyes and she seemed to have accepted it and go on, regardless the pain. It is the first time that we have seen Kokone experiencing it and realising of the consequences... and it is still to be seen how good she will tackle.
As a minor note. Does not Kokone strangely resemble Alpha in the opening page? http://www.cafealpha.org/ch136/1.html
- DavidF
Tuesday, November 1, 2005
> As a minor note. Does not Kokone strangely resemble Alpha in the opening page?
Well, since Alpha, Kokone, Director Alpha, and Maruko are all practically identical twins, it's not strange that they might look similar occasionally....
- Kerry
Tuesday, November 1, 2005
Thank you.
As for Maki's age: http://ykk.misago.org/Afternoon2003/154.html
- Radomir Dopieralski
Tuesday, November 1, 2005
Howdy,
We are also told that Makki's age is Eleven back in chapter 87, "People of the Bay".
http://ykk.misago.org/Volume9/148.html
A little less than a chronological year later, chapter 98, "Things That Fly," tells us that Makki is thirteen (as was mentioned in the prior post).
So there does seem to be some flexibility in the YKK timeline.
Best,
Dave
- dDave
Tuesday, November 1, 2005
You know now that you mention that Dave and I look back at chapter 72 where Makki gets the Sasage I wonder if she was getting it for the reason that was mentioned a while back. If she did indeed buy the sasage for the puberty celebration then there wouldn't be a jump of a year between one volume to the next like people are guessing. I've been going back and looking at volumes 7, 8, and 9 recently to do a bit of research for a story I've started and between Chapters 63 and 81 I'd gather a full year has passed. I'd venture to guess that in chapter 72 if Makki was buying the sasage for the puberty celebration then she would have just turned eleven. If that's indeed true then it would put chapter 87 at the end of Makki's eleventh year of life. This would mean some volumes went slower than others. It would also mean the age difference between Makki and Takahiro isn't as big as I had once gathered since in chapter 65 Takahiro's age is mentioned to be thirteen. That difference would be more like two years than the three or four I once thought it was. Makes you think when you start to really search for signs of aging in the human characters.
- Christine K
Tuesday, November 1, 2005
By the way, have I mentioned lately how much I love the Elves?
I love the Elves. Thank you.
- martialstax
Wednesday, November 2, 2005
Small correction about Shiba-chan's first appear:
http://ykk.misago.org/Volume2/InsideBackCover
It seems to be Kokone and Shiba a new team at this page.
- Kogepan
Thursday, November 3, 2005
Interesting notes re: the passage of time.... All this detailed reading!! :)
I definitely didn't mean to imply that 1 volume= 1 year in any sort of true rigidity. I think the statement that sometimes it's flexible seems very valid.
I simply meant that in a general sense, if you look at the time lapse over the course of the total 13 vols, it seems to imply that it's approximately 1 year to 1 vol, in general. This applies to things like-- 10 years have passed since vol 4, Shiba and Kokone working together for 10 years (although I guess that's up to debate now-- and since I can't read Japanese, I'll take the more educated readings of the nuances that others have posted), or the 6 years since the typhoon.
Is Makki 17 or 18 or 18 1/2? I dunno. I just thought the suggestion that many years had suddenly passed within the last 3-5 chapters,and that there was a sudden time "jump", and she was in her twenties already didn't seem to hold with the way the story has been told, or what the characters were saying regarding the passage of time.
But eh, it _is_ very flexible, and not very set, so who knows? There's always enough room for multiple interpretations. :)
- Steve Berry
Thursday, November 3, 2005
Judging from the growth and appearence of some of my neighbor's 14 yr old daughters, Makki could easily be anywhere between 14 and 22...
I think everyone is all too hung up on just how much time has passed and I find that trying to figure it out only lessens my enjoyment of a series that begs you to just go with it.... Besides which, if the robots are going to live, potentially forever, whether 10 or 50 years has passed, its all a drop in the bucket of time for them.
Prior to the Industrial Revolution, the marking of time was purely a matter of necessity. Many agrarian soceities had no need to mark even the passing hours. You simply looked up at the sun and noted its placement in the sky. For the seasons, you noted the condition of the weather and the reactions the natural flora and fauna had to it. To me, Alpha's and for that matter all of the characters attitiudes fit this more proto-civilization mode of keeping the days, save Director Alpha who seems to watch the calendar for scientific purposes.
In the end, I don't really care how many years have passed in manga-time. I just sit back and enjoy each page as it unfolds before me, just as the characters live their lives in that same way. To me, its another level of Ashinano's message: Slow down and EXPERIENCE life... don't rush through it marking time.
- Darin~
Thursday, November 3, 2005
First 4 volumes a really slow comparing to latest... One can say this is because when we are young, time is staying still, getting older days begin to slip out like water from hands. Or maybe, because time before meetings and events grows longer and longer, while Ashinano tends to show more character-based chapters, than Alpha's zen hermit experience.
As she said in one of recent chapters - "I like the time when I'm not alone better" =)
- Drake
Thursday, November 3, 2005
Hello, been a long time since I last make a stop here. Grateful I am to the elves who really deserves the gratitudes from the whole community.
Thanks for always working hard on bringing us always the latest chapters of YKK.
Hmm.. Concerning about time lapse, I'm surprised by how much people here take a point heavily about it. I, instead, care less about YKK's timeline and focuses more towards
reading the manga as if I am one of the 'passer-by's who happened to get the chance to witness whatever the current events are. This way, I think I'm able to understand whatever the manga tries to tell better. Though, it makes me cannot interpret them in words and only spiritually and mentally.
As for the timeline.. The thing I noticed since the earlier chapter is that the time in YKK, like stated in the previous thread posts, is flexible. Where at times the time lapse can be big in just a few chapters, while at times time passes really slow even in a volume.
Anway, to say, I hate to mess myself with time itself. Which could be the reason why I care less about time lapses in YKK. I'd rather live life not much concerning about time since it really bugs me, in all sorts of ways, yeah. I live better this way.
Till then, we'll meet again for I will always give this place a visit whenever I'm not having other rather important tasks to tackle, farewell.
- Jax
Thursday, November 3, 2005
Praise be to the elves, this manga is a masterpiece and this was another great chapter. ^_^
I was also thinking about how Kokone might have been passed over for promotion due to prejudice against robots, but then we don't really know that. It could be that management positions only open up when someone retires, and also Kokone might be the only one in the office who can deliver messages in the way we are all so very fond of. : D
I hope Shiba's change in situation prompts Kokone to finally fulfill her wish to live at cafe Alpha... there's probably not much time left to do that.
-k
curious
- Kempis Curious
Friday, November 4, 2005
You mean something like "people gone after thier own business, robots left alone together"?
- Radomir Dopieralski
Saturday, November 5, 2005
I haven't seen anything in YKK that suggests the robots are treated any differently than humans. So I don't think Kokone is being passed over for promotion. It may simply be that Shiba has more seniority at their company.
- martialstax
Sunday, November 6, 2005
It seems that it is considered rude to say to robot people, "you are not like us" or something like that.
The motor guy from chapter 129 said to Kokone, "If I said something rude..." after saying "Muscle motors and you have something similar." And Kokone's reaction suggests it's not the first time people have said things like that to her.
And in this chapter 136, Shiba-chan said to Kokone, "I'm sorry!" after saying "You haven't changed a bit. I envy you."
I wonder if it implies that robots are treated equally to humans, or not.
-kGo
- Kimoto Go
Thursday, November 10, 2005
Those incidents seem to indicate robots are recognizable, but are treated with respect.
Maruko seems to make a profit from flirting with customers instead of being subservient.
But, offhand, I can't remember anyone in YKK being rude, except maybe Maruko.
- Kerry
Thursday, November 10, 2005
http://www.cafealpha.org/ch126/4.html
'Childlish' is closer than 'rude', but I dont like my sis having such behaviour either.
- tongHoAnh
Thursday, November 10, 2005
It seems I have been away too long and missed the chapter's arrival!
Thanks so much to the hardworking elves!
- Silverback
Friday, November 11, 2005
And here I spent several minutes trying to make something of "takatsu" without thinking that it might be simply Kokone's last name. D'ohh.
Many thanks to the elves for another chapter!
- Smarasderagd
Sunday, December 4, 2005
Somehow I came to thought that robots are "meant" be equal to humans by some law, and were given weapons to protect themselves if someone tries to abuse them. It's not specifically chapter 136 makes me think this way, I recently reread several older volumes. Remarkable that nor Alpha, nor possibly Kokone pays attention to this.
Poor humans, anticipating their own nature ^^.
- Drake
Monday, December 5, 2005
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